Right to demand proof of ID

debonaire · Post by **debonaire** » Fri May 29, 2009 1:14 pm

Okay...So here it goes...Yesterday I had done some shopping in my local Citymarket...The amount was 27€ to be precise...So fas so good but the moment i took out my nordea visa electron card, the old lady at the counter demanded to see my henkilo todistus( ID card) which kind of shocked me a little...I asked her for a reason to show my ID when the bill is well below 50 euros...and she told me that since i have a foreign name,the machine wants to know my social security number

..Bizarre..
As far as I know one is required to show his/her ID only when paying through card when the amount exceeds the 50€ limit.During my stay here for over 3 years i have never beed asked before to show my ID for any transaction less than 50€ in any shop...and i have always paid through cards...Not that i have any problem showing my ID but i wouldn't like to be taken for a ride...So I would like to know is it legal for a shopkeeper/counter salesperson to demand to see my ID ,even when the amount is less than 50€, just because I have a foreign name...

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jas_rho · Post by **jas_rho** » Fri May 29, 2009 1:24 pm

To me that sounds odd and of all the years living in Finland I have never had that happen either. But in the end if you think about it, she is protecting you too. I mean think of someone else was trying to use your card, even for a purchase as small as yours. And they checked... then you'd be saved. But it does seem a bit prejudiced for her to give the strange name as the reason. Back when I first moved to Finland I didn't have any official ID that had my Finnish SS number on it and that always caused problems when they would ask for ID and I would give my US IDs. Quite often they would then have to call their supervisor and they would come and say all is fine but still, kind of a strange way to confirm the card's validity.
Anyway, just be happy they were checking that no one had stole your card and trying to buy stuff with it

debonaire · Post by **debonaire** » Fri May 29, 2009 1:50 pm

jas_rho wrote:To me that sounds odd and of all the years living in Finland I have never had that happen either. But in the end if you think about it, she is protecting you too. I mean think of someone else was trying to use your card, even for a purchase as small as yours. And they checked... then you'd be saved. But it does seem a bit prejudiced for her to give the strange name as the reason. Back when I first moved to Finland I didn't have any official ID that had my Finnish SS number on it and that always caused problems when they would ask for ID and I would give my US IDs. Quite often they would then have to call their supervisor and they would come and say all is fine but still, kind of a strange way to confirm the card's validity.
Anyway, just be happy they were checking that no one had stole your card and trying to buy stuff with it

If the issue was concerning security,then i wouldn't have had any problem in cooperating but shouldn't that be a universal process...I mean out of all people she only asked me to furnish my Id and the reason she gave was a little humiliating as if she was trying to embarass me for bearing a foreign name...she could have said that its a routine security procedure(although even that is a a bit prejudiced for only picking me up out of all people) and i would have happily obliged her...but its what she said stings the most...
And this is why I would like to know if she was being justified in demanding to see my ID for that particular reason...Is there a law that all people with foreign names have to show their ID when making purchases acoss Finland even when the amount is less than 50€?

jas_rho · Post by **jas_rho** » Fri May 29, 2009 2:02 pm

debonaire wrote: If the issue was concerning security,then i wouldn't have had any problem in cooperating but shouldn't that be a universal process...I mean out of all people she only asked me to furnish my Id and the reason she gave was a little humiliating as if she was trying to embarass me for bearing a foreign name...she could have said that its a routine security procedure(although even that is a a bit prejudiced for only picking me up out of all people) and i would have happily obliged her...but its what she said stings the most...
And this is why I would like to know if she was being justified in demanding to see my ID for that particular reason...Is there a law that all people with foreign names have to show their ID when making purchases acoss Finland even when the amount is less than 50€?

Yeah I know what you mean and agree it was a dumb reason. I am sure there is no law but I guess a store has the right to refuse service if they feel like it. And if she was suspicious about your name then I guess she had to check. I am not saying its right, or justified though. I would also get mad about that. But at the same time, they are protecting your money too by checking, at least thinking that would make me feel a little better. Think about the Finns (like my wife for example) who are 100% finnish but have a foreign name, and if they would get checked for that reason, it would also be dumb. Anyway, I am not trying to say its right, just writing what I have to say about this

You could go back there and talk with the store's kauppias. Tell him you are pissed off about how they asked for your ID and why, maybe he'll say sorry and make up for it somehow. I would if I was you.

debonaire · Post by **debonaire** » Fri May 29, 2009 2:27 pm

jas_rho wrote: Anyway, I am not trying to say its right, just writing what I have to say about this You could go back there and talk with the store's kauppias. Tell him you are pissed off about how they asked for your ID and why, maybe he'll say sorry and make up for it somehow. I would if I was you.

yah....thats what i intend to do and that is why i wanted to know if there is any kind of law here regarding that issue..i don't want any kind of compensation but i would definitely let the store's kauppias know of my utter displeasure...and atleast in future i woudn't show my ID if the reason would be a foreing name if it ever happens again.

interleukin · Post by **interleukin** » Fri May 29, 2009 2:34 pm

At least if you go and talk to them you can know if this is some new security policy (unfair as it may seem) or just a case of one xenophobic cashier.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Fri May 29, 2009 2:40 pm

Paying with Visa Electron the cashiers can ask for ID regardless of the sum.... its in the small print in the contract in the recycling bin

debonaire · Post by **debonaire** » Fri May 29, 2009 2:56 pm

interleukin wrote:At least if you go and talk to them you can know if this is some new security policy (unfair as it may seem) or just a case of one xenophobic cashier.

Thats correct...the reason i didn't pursue the matter yesterday as i was shopping with my finnish wife(who also has a foreign name since she bears my surname),my baby and her sister and they just asked me to let go of it instead of getting confrontational with the old sales woman...
Anyways i inted to talk with the kauppias and get to the bottom of the issue..and i definitely think its nothing to do with security because of the basic fact that she wanted to see my ID owing to my foreign name...

debonaire · Post by **debonaire** » Fri May 29, 2009 2:57 pm

Pursuivant wrote:Paying with Visa Electron the cashiers can ask for ID regardless of the sum.... its in the small print in the contract in the recycling bin

Ok so there is a clause while paying through visa electron.....then its fine with me...i will just take it as a one off incident and woudn't be so pissed again if it ever happens in the future...

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Fri May 29, 2009 3:02 pm

Its got to do with the new EMV system and paying with PIN... if theres no PIN used then its ID check...

interleukin · Post by **interleukin** » Fri May 29, 2009 3:02 pm

Paying with Visa Electron the cashiers can ask for ID regardless of the sum.... its in the small print in the contract in the recycling bin

Yeah, which means that if you have a funny name or even better, are dark-skinned, you get those same "random" checks that my Indian colleague gets put through at airports...

I am as pale as a Finn and have a nordic name that could be mistaken for a hurri-name, and I have never been asked for ID using my electron card.

debonaire · Post by **debonaire** » Fri May 29, 2009 3:14 pm

interleukin wrote:
Paying with Visa Electron the cashiers can ask for ID regardless of the sum.... its in the small print in the contract in the recycling bin
Yeah, which means that if you have a funny name or even better, are dark-skinned, you get those same "random" checks that my Indian colleague gets put through at airports...

I am as pale as a Finn and have a nordic name that could be mistaken for a hurri-name, and I have never been asked for ID using my electron card.

I am an Indian(not dark skinned though) and my name can be pronounced very easily...havent had any problem with finns or any other nationality...never been subjected to any kind of security checks anywhere and i do fly a lot...was just a little pissed as its the first time ever in my life i had to show my ID for a simple shopping...anyhow,since there is a clause while paying through visa electron like Hank said, i woudn't take it more seriously now...especially since the woman was over 50 and not some beautiful young girl

that would have been a complete disaster

Mölkky-Fan · Post by **Mölkky-Fan** » Fri May 29, 2009 3:58 pm

she told me that since i have a foreign name,the machine wants to know my social security number

Then you should not be complaining about the woman, it is the xenophobic machine you should be complaining at!

I would have loved to get into a 'heated' conversation with her about how on earth the machine recognises a foreign name from a Finnish name... if it ends in -inen it is a Finnish name? what about -berg, is that foreign? or does it work on number of vowel: consonant ratio? or if the name has one or more of the letters b, c, f, q, w or z? Then call over the manager to discuss how they could use such a racist machine! That would have been a great Friday afternoon discussion to block the check out queue

sinikala · Post by **sinikala** » Fri May 29, 2009 4:00 pm

debonaire wrote:and the reason she gave was a little humiliating as if she was trying to embarass me for bearing a foreign name.

How on Earth can anyone be humiliated or embarassed by a checkout lady in a supermarket?

In terms of status her job is hardly one that puts her in a position to crush the human spirit, is it?

Let it go man.

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Fri May 29, 2009 8:47 pm

debonaire wrote:was just a little pissed as its the first time ever in my life i had to show my ID for a simple shopping...

Ah to be tween again and have my ID checked every time in Alko... I was 29 or 30 when the cashier wanted to see my ID for bottle of beer and bottle of cider... <3

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