Working in English

[Ravvy]

Try wearing a shirt that says "I heart Sweden" or "I speak only English" in Finland,

As a teenager my son did that. He had been on a class trip to Stockholm and bought a "I heart Sweden" T-shirt. He wore it to Sweden-Finland football match and spoke Finnish loudly.

I wouldn't be surprised a teenager did that.

I'm going a bit off topic here, but you reminded me of someone we saw on the streets downtown in Tampere a couple summers ago. She was a 65-70 yr old with silver hair that had portions dyed bright pink. She wore a T-shirt with a picture of Bush on the front, with a line across his face and the caption "International Terrorist". Was a noteworthy "Kodak moment" for us. We were not sure what the attitude would be on the street toward Americans, and that certainly clarified one point of view! Water under the bridge; just remembering a T-shirt is my point, that is all.

[Bubba Elvis XIV]

Nah...China doesn't have religion...they just have a ton of stupid superstitions and rituals instead.

[easily-lost]

Look, I wasn't going to reply...

Maybe you should not, because you have shown what a clown you are here...not for the first time.

I'd like to know any foreigners (non-Finns) here dare to label themselves as an "expert" of Finnish culture after living in Finland for 4 years. Anyone?

Well, I wouldn't call myself as an "expert", I leave it for others to judge; unlike somebody, I wouldn't jump to the tree screaming, "I know everything, I know it all! Therefore, you should do this and not do that..." Well, if you don't want to be modest, then you'd better show some solid knowledge, (For example, your "Han people hate Tibetans" theory is ridiculous. Again, are you any of them? No. Did you interview ALL Han people to get such conclusion? I'm afraid the answer is still "no". Can you see your problems here?!), otherwise it's just a free hilarious show to everybody else.

I never said I don't like Europe or anywhere else. Do you read with your elbows or what?! Oh, a tax payer is called a "sponge" in your area? You never ceased mazing me with your ignorance. Again, stop judging people based on your poor imagination. So pathetic.

Whether Europeans would be influenced or not without China, I don't think you are ABLE to answer that. You can keep your opinions, stupid or not, they are YOURS, and I certainly wouldn't tell you that you should change them just because I disagree. Now you see the difference between you and me?

[raamv]

Questioning authority and politics is a healthy way to control governments, and funnily enough doesn't lead to civil wars in most democratic countries.

According to who? Western societies ? Why The Fu k should Governments in Eastern part of the world look like western part? Why should democracy be the same everywhere?

[raamv]

Look, I wasn't going to reply, to avoid legitimizing this sponger's views. You didn't say what your background is, or why you claim expert knowledge of Chinese culture. You may be ethnic Chinese (or not?), but even so your views are highly disingenuous. Easily lost, if you don't like Europe and are from elsewhere, you could go home. And should do so. If you have arrived in Finland from China, it is only in order to grab everything you can. Like a sponge. What the Chinese call a 食客。

As I said - and I am repeating myself - which shows you haven't read the thread - Europe is a POST-ENLIGHTENMENT culture. Having gone through the Enlightenment, we have reappraised the religions of our ancestors and the number of people in Europe who go to church is very low. In Finland it is very, very low. We became rational (too rational?), and so found our previous culture not fully satisfactory. Even those who go to church often do so for the music only. The US is something else - all that born-again stuff is arguably a form of self-righteousness and thus contrary to the traditional European Christianity, which was not focused on the self. But even in the US, the average believer would quite happily abort a foetus, so religious views are not having as much impact on people's beliefs and behaviour as you might think. It didn't stop George Bush from bombing Iraq, for example.

Europe became an open-minded culture. And although I think multiculturalism has gone too far - and indeed provided a rationale for spongers - it has a good side, and that is that we have been prepared to reappraise our history. Few Americans would like to slaughter Indians nowadays. Few Europeans want to conquer Empires. In the UK, Scotland has been told they can have independence whenever they want it. China is about as close-minded a culture as it is possible to find in the world today. Chinese people generally start screaming and shouting if you mention what has been done in Tibet. The Han Chinese hate the Tibetans. I know, I used to live in Chengdu. A more open China would be a possibility - you can see the Hong Kong and Taiwan cultures, and I think China should learn from them. Taiwan is simply brilliant - a genuine "Free China".

Westerners not open-minded to science? Stop this claptrap. You would be ploughing the fields and wiping your a*se with leaves still if it were not for the industrial revolution (note to Rob: this was in England). If England, or let's say Western Europe, had never existed, there would be no industry, no human rights, no democracy, no modernity. If China had never existed, we would still have progressed ourselves. 还有什么好说的？

you sir are a multi-goted waste of human kind and should go back to your tree climbing ways!! Its better that you trace your ancestor to your nearest tree dwelling type!!
The very fact that you went to China to live there for 4 years and think that you can learn the Chinese Culture and ways shows how much of an idiot you are!!
You sir will not be able to count without the zero being invented by the Eastern Society so shut your claptrap!!

[easily-lost]

No, Zero was not invented in China. It was invented in India.

Once again! How about doing some simple research first?

"In mathematics, the concept zero is used in two ways: as a number and as a value of a variable. The positional system of number notation, developed first by the Babylonians (about 500 b.c.) with the base 60, and a millennium later by the Hindus and the Chinese with the base 10, required for greater clarity a special marker of the empty, nonoccupied position." (Answers.com)

You can get similar result from Wiki too. I remember somebody mentioned something like "post-enlightenment"...but he seems not to know how to use the most common modern tools.

My employer hasn't found anyone that can replace me yet, and I don't think it will be soon either, sorry to tell you that.

So, you went to China because you thought it was full of gold probably? Hey, there have been lots of "gold-diggers" in China, but due to severe competition with their western country fellows (even in schools), they had to go back where they were from. That starts to make sense to me.

We all know what kind of people you're likely to meet in Chengdu ("a westerner town" for those who don't know much about it). Didn't your Chinese friends tell you to be careful there?

[pierrot]

Questioning authority and politics is a healthy way to control governments, and funnily enough doesn't lead to civil wars in most democratic countries.

According to who? Western societies ? Why The Fu k should Governments in Eastern part of the world look like western part? Why should democracy be the same everywhere?

Re-read my sentence, understand and come back again.
And democracy is the same everywhere, it's a form of government where people hold the power. If people hold the power, it's a democracy, if not, then its not a democracy. Easy.

[mrjimsfc]

And democracy is the same everywhere, it's a form of government where people hold the power. If people hold the power, it's a democracy, if not, then its not a democracy. Easy.

It seems pretty straightforward to me. Yup, no questions, easy to understand.

[Duolala]

I'm a mainland Chinese thinking outside the "box", as I have been living outside the box half my life!

I agree with David that most Chinese mainlanders repeats whatever the government told them, because they think whatever the authority said is "the truth", and they ("we") were forbidden (and punished) if we have our own idea ever since we were pupils. We have to "convince" ourselves that "what I thought" was wrong, and "I must think exactly like what the authorities tell me". If not, we'll be in big trouble - basically, we couldn't have been able to live our lives, going to the school and all that (they'll nag and nag and nag until you give up). So by the time we grow up, we kind of lost the ability to think for ourselves. We have learned that the safest way and easiest way is to follow whatever we are told.

That's why nearly all mainland Chinese repeat exactly what the government tells them. I was like that too. It took me 10 years to become an "individual".

And I definantely agree that whatever our own writer said about China and Chinese ("A Q" and "The Ugly Chinese") still holds to most Chinese today. I am among the most Chinese (whose brains either function or not) who believe that Chinese would not change much, given another 500 years!

The "Chinese Chinese" only want to live a material life, enjoy life, being superior, grasp resources, raise children, and die.

The westernized Chinese feel bad about some Chinese being slaved by other Chinese. But if they do something to help the poor Chinese (which means being rebelious), they will die, before they can enjoy life and raise children.

So most not-so-Chinese Chinese just remain silence. They may think differently. They never speak differently.

I don't think it's too shameful to be a Chinese - It's not my fault. There are many other tynannic countries in the world. And if the majority Chinese do not believe EQUALITY is the best solution to all Chinese (and their children), China will never change.