Separate swimming times for women based on religion.

[Karhunkoski]

Muslim, muslim, muslim...yawn, yawn, yawn...

Indeed, it is getting rather tedious.

Just watched the BBC news....

1. Muslim extremists in Afghanistan
2. Muslim extremists in Iraq
3. Anti extremists rioting in Iran (a worthy cause in my eyes, having met some young Iranians who told me how they were oppressed in their homeland)
4. Sarkozy telling France that the Burqa is not welcome in France, on grounds of equality for women.
5. The UK is looking for a new speaker in the parliement.

So yes, I see what you mean Bubs

[Bubba Elvis XIV]

3. Anti extremists rioting in Iran (a worthy cause in my eyes, having met some young Iranians who told me how they were oppressed in their homeland)

Thank you for proving my point! nnln

[Pursuivant]

In the sake of multiculturalism, why don't we let people have their own laws too

[Bubba Elvis XIV]

Yeah - but sh!t like that is a good law.

But I am all for capital/corporal punshment etc etc...

[digitalSurgeon]

please guys dont be rascist, this has nothing to do with muslim women not integrating, this is more about them following their religious teachings, if you dont like this then you might as well kick out all the muslim imigrants and also not allow any hindu sikh or other religions to build temples etc and also then dont forget to remove the free or freedom from finland

[Upphew]

please guys dont be rascist, this has nothing to do with muslim women not integrating, this is more about them following their religious teachings, if you dont like this then you might as well kick out all the muslim imigrants and also not allow any hindu sikh or other religions to build temples etc and also then dont forget to remove the free or freedom from finland

But one can't follow all his religious teachings in Finland. Some of them are against the law and even if they are not, it might be better to keep some things out of public, unless you want to get new law that forbids it.

[Vesper]

I watched a documentary on Iran a few months ago. the males and females are not allowed to hold hands in public. at the universities, the men and women have to dine in separate cafes. there is a lot of codes written in their law, which are religious based (being a religiuos state), that they cannot mix with the opposite sex. Muslim religion is very orthodox in many ways. No pornography magazines, no sexuality of women exposed. Majority of the Iranian population is 26 and under, they do not want to live like their orthodox parents, with strict religious codes. They want Iranian women to have more freedom. They want the same free lifestyle that the western cultures enjoy. But, even my president Obama has to be careful what he says, so their rebel won't be seen as if it's pushing western cultural views on their religious state. I think the muslim women who want separate swim times are used to the heavy hand of religion and state going hand in hand, not the opposite.

[Vesper]

please guys dont be rascist, this has nothing to do with muslim women not integrating, this is more about them following their religious teachings, if you dont like this then you might as well kick out all the muslim imigrants and also not allow any hindu sikh or other religions to build temples etc and also then dont forget to remove the free or freedom from finland

But one can't follow all his religious teachings in Finland. Some of them are against the law and even if they are not, it might be better to keep some things out of public, unless you want to get new law that forbids it.

that's the catch, my dear. Religion is above the law, as their God, as any, is the almighty. 'God' is above all laws.

[Bubba Elvis XIV]

That is very true, Vesper...and that's why I find the use of the word 'muslim' ridiculous.

But even still there are muslim countries that do not follow the strict beliefs, turkey, the UAE. (interesting to me as the UAE has a ton of MMA - ultimate fighting - events, yet pro boxing in liberal Sweden was banned for many years, and maybe still is)...Bloody muslims!!!

[Pursuivant]

please guys dont be rascist,

then stop being an infidel - my religion demands burning you on the stake

[Bubba Elvis XIV]

Whats up with you and medieval punishments today?

[Tiwaz]

That is very true, Vesper...and that's why I find the use of the word 'muslim' ridiculous.

But even still there are muslim countries that do not follow the strict beliefs, turkey, the UAE. (interesting to me as the UAE has a ton of MMA - ultimate fighting - events, yet pro boxing in liberal Sweden was banned for many years, and maybe still is)...Bloody muslims!!!

Well, if we should not call them muslims what should we call them?
If you have another word which describes that particular group which is after such treatment then please let us know.

It can't be immigrants, because they do not represent anywhere near half of the whole immigrant population.
They clearly are not Finns, because Finns have never had this issue of women having to wear potato sack and being banned from swimming with men.

They are not really extremists either, because they represent very large group of global Islamic population. Extremists would require them to be tiny minority, which they are not.

So what shall we call them?

[sammy]

So what shall we call them?

Keskenäänpulikoivat?

[AldenG]

It will be interesting to see if anything comes of Sarkozy's remarks to the French parliament on Monday, stating that the burqa is "in disaccord with French values."

"In our country, we cannot accept that women be prisoners behind a screen, cut off from all social life, deprived of all identity," Sarkozy said to extended applause of the lawmakers gathered where French kings once held court.

"The burqa is not a religious sign, it's a sign of subservience, a sign of debasement _ I want to say it solemnly," he said. "It will not be welcome on the territory of the French Republic."

Apparently the number of women who wear the burqa or niqab in France is only in the hundreds. Of course there was plenty of controversy back when France banned headscarves, but this is different in that the number of people affected is so much smaller but their commitment to the principle may be so much more intense.

His words have no force of law but they do indicate an intended direction.

Do you see women dressed this way in Helsinki or elsewhere in Finland?

[Bubba Elvis XIV]

Do you see women dressed this way in Helsinki or elsewhere in Finland?

I've seen a few....not many...but once in a blue moon. So i've seen 'em...whether they see usI can't be sure.

(Most of the ones I've seen have been white women - but it could be the same woman...you never can tell).