About Speed Cameras ?

[Karhunkoski]

Manners are something which grease the rails of life in a civilised society. They ease social interaction, smooth negotiation and generally increase everyone's quality of life. In some societies the system falls down when showing consideration for others is seen as a weakness, rather than a strength.

It should have addendum. "Manners, and more specifically good manners, are dependent on code of conduct of host society, trying to judge society by code of conduct which are not native to it is not productive nor going to prove useful."

Nope. Good manners and courtesy are not solely defined by the host society (although some are). General manners are an international phenomenon, and all countries in Europe can be judged on their awareness of these with equal congratulation or disdain.

[Karhunkoski]

You wanna come to one of my classes one day and even try and explain that?

I think I'll skip, even my own family struggles to comprehend. Oddly the only ones that do are those who have lived outside of the mothership

[Karhunkoski]

speedo metres in cars show around 10% higher speed than the actual speed.

Rubbish and misleading tosh from someone who doesn't know better.

By law speedos cannot show a lower speed than actual, but your 10% is widely inaccurate with modern electronics.

[Bubba Elvis XIV]

You wanna come to one of my classes one day and even try and explain that?

I think I'll skip, even my own family struggles to comprehend. Oddly the only ones that do are those who have lived outside of the mothership

Off topic - but an interesting experience recently teaching a foriegn chap. We discussed why you should be polite and diplomatic, he even said "Isnt that obvious?"....but he didn't know how to use 'would / could / is it possible..' .A lot of the Finns I work with understand the expressions perfectly, piece of p!ss...but just don't get the 'why' part. They kind of want to...but juuuuust can't grasp it.

Cultural of course.

[Bubba Elvis XIV]

speedo metres in cars show around 10% higher speed than the actual speed.

Rubbish and misleading tosh from someone who doesn't know better.

By law speedos cannot show a lower speed than actual, but your 10% is widely inaccurate with modern electronics.

Bit harsh that - It's a common idea, whether true or not, I dunno...But I will say my Nav thing does about 10% over my car...I'll do pics if you want If you don't mind the dust and empty fag boxes and 6 month old coffee cups on the dash board.

There's a big thingy round Masku way that tells you your car speed. It usually reads about 1 km below my nav thingy.

Which I am supposed to go by, I don't know.

[AldenG]

....but he didn't know how to use 'would / could / is it possible..' .A lot of the Finns I work with understand the expressions perfectly, piece of p!ss...but just don't get the 'why' part. They kind of want to...but juuuuust can't grasp it.

Cultural of course.

Excellent point, actually, and not so far off topic.

Finnish families use forms like haepas mulle and tuopas mulle where English-speaking families would use "would you go get me the..." or "could you bring me the..." whatever. And yet they don't mean the same thing. At all. They reflect (and shape) a different way of thinking about the transaction and the person you're talking to. Some of the difference is simply linguistic convention, of course. But some of it reflects a mindset that is more, well, if not exactly authoritarian then at least demand-centric. This is something that comes up in cross-cultural relationship counseling as a significant factor in conflict.

[onkko]

Nope. Good manners and courtesy are not solely defined by the host society (although some are). General manners are an international phenomenon, and all countries in Europe can be judged on their awareness of these with equal congratulation or disdain.

Mutta hyvä herra, ettekai te vihjaa että me pohjoisen barbaarit emme kykenisi sivistyneeseen käytökseen! Kuinka vulgaaria!

And i have disagree with you, you keep your manners in where ever they are used. Your talking over, showing when someone did mistake, unnecessary talk, touching, embarassing mentioning, over emotional/hand talking, coming too close etc are extremly offending. Goddammit now when im it next time some farking italian comes in depressing morning to yell in my face Ciao tutti and wave to me i will "headpunc" (you know, use my forehead against nose) him or her (not beautiful her)
I think you are deserving manners like "not beated up", "not sliced" and "not stomped/pushed with stick in bog" and thats what we have always done, we also restrain to call you £$€¤%& when you offend us but thats reserved in political meetings
And now i only mentioned how westers offend

Goddammit i wanted to hit one engelshman, i slipped and fell in city and that bastard come to help me out... Reflex was to hit but thank god brain was faster.. Bastard. Helping is reserved on close friends or when youre really injured. Well that englishman was bit baffled on how i looked him and how i acted so i thought i should explain that "i didnt fall if he didnt notice" thing, hopefully he understood. yee multiculture

[Karhunkoski]

Mutta hyvä herra, ettekai te vihjaa että me pohjoisen barbaarit emme kykenisi sivistyneeseen käytökseen! Kuinka vulgaaria!

My good sir, I am not suggesting that the northern barbarian is not capable of good manners. Just that perhaps he must seek his education in another land, least he want to be aquainted with such widely-accepted civilised behaviour. Don't take offence, find a fellow Finn who has lived outside of Finland for some time, and ask him his honest opinion. My research is based upon actual comment and statement, not on any wish to put down Finland, as you know, I love the Country, but I love it with enough maturity to realise that it does have an occasional fallacy (rather than the blind nationalistic defensiveness).

[onkko]

Mutta hyvä herra, ettekai te vihjaa että me pohjoisen barbaarit emme kykenisi sivistyneeseen käytökseen! Kuinka vulgaaria!

find a fellow Finn who has lived outside of Finland for some time, and ask him his honest opinion.

Well i quote my cousin who lived in UK years. "Ei v!%# ne o sekasin ja mikään ei toimi. Yks hailee mitä tahtoo niin tehdään mahollisimman monimutkasesti. En perkele enään uusi työsopimusta!. Ja niitte taloihi paleltuu ja on niin good ja vitut."
And then my workmate "Ei englannissa mitää taloja tehä, jotaki romukasoja. Ei saanu ees rautaa ostettua paikanpäältä ja eristykset on semmoset että nollakelillä paleltuu. Vitutti semmosia rakentaa. Porukat hymyilee ja on ystävällisiä mutta ei tapahu.."
Then other mate "Onhan se niin että suomalaiset on vittumaisia mutta täällä sentään kaikki pääasiassa toimii ja vittuilu piristää, mitään iloa ystävällisistä ja hymyilevistä tyypeistä ko ei mikään toimi"
Then one worked in africa "Olihan ne ilosia, hampaat vaan vilkku että yes sir ja of course sir mutta vitut mitään tapahtunu, olisivat ees suoraan sanoneet ettei nappaa"

I stick finnish way

[Karhunkoski]

Mutta hyvä herra, ettekai te vihjaa että me pohjoisen barbaarit emme kykenisi sivistyneeseen käytökseen! Kuinka vulgaaria!

find a fellow Finn who has lived outside of Finland for some time, and ask him his honest opinion.

Well i quote my cousin who lived in UK years. "Ei v!%# ne o sekasin ja mikään ei toimi. Yks hailee mitä tahtoo niin tehdään mahollisimman monimutkasesti. En perkele enään uusi työsopimusta!. Ja niitte taloihi paleltuu ja on niin good ja vitut."
And then my workmate "Ei englannissa mitää taloja tehä, jotaki romukasoja. Ei saanu ees rautaa ostettua paikanpäältä ja eristykset on semmoset että nollakelillä paleltuu. Vitutti semmosia rakentaa. Porukat hymyilee ja on ystävällisiä mutta ei tapahu.."
Then other mate "Onhan se niin että suomalaiset on vittumaisia mutta täällä sentään kaikki pääasiassa toimii ja vittuilu piristää, mitään iloa ystävällisistä ja hymyilevistä tyypeistä ko ei mikään toimi"
Then one worked in africa "Olihan ne ilosia, hampaat vaan vilkku että yes sir ja of course sir mutta vitut mitään tapahtunu, olisivat ees suoraan sanoneet ettei nappaa"

I stick finnish way

Yup, nobody every denied that there are problems with bathrooms, heating and different ways of doing things.

not on any wish to put down Finland, as you know, I love the Country, but I love it with enough maturity to realise that it does have an occasional fallacy (rather than the blind nationalistic defensiveness).

Perhaps one needs to be mature enough to understand each countries' traits, without resorting to slinging mud?


Tell a Brit that "this" is w4nk in your country, reply is "yup it sure is, I wish it was better", openly accepting the s h ite bits.

Tell a Finn that "this" is w4nk in your country, reply is "but in your country this is w4nk, and in x country this is w4nk", frantically trying to cover up the s h ite bits.

[Bubba Elvis XIV]

Well i quote my cousin who lived in UK years. "Ei v!%# ne o sekasin ja mikään ei toimi. Yks hailee mitä tahtoo niin tehdään mahollisimman monimutkasesti. En perkele enään uusi työsopimusta!. Ja niitte taloihi paleltuu ja on niin good ja vitut."
And then my workmate "Ei englannissa mitää taloja tehä, jotaki romukasoja. Ei saanu ees rautaa ostettua paikanpäältä ja eristykset on semmoset että nollakelillä paleltuu. Vitutti semmosia rakentaa. Porukat hymyilee ja on ystävällisiä mutta ei tapahu.."
Then other mate "Onhan se niin että suomalaiset on vittumaisia mutta täällä sentään kaikki pääasiassa toimii ja vittuilu piristää, mitään iloa ystävällisistä ja hymyilevistä tyypeistä ko ei mikään toimi"
Then one worked in africa "Olihan ne ilosia, hampaat vaan vilkku että yes sir ja of course sir mutta vitut mitään tapahtunu, olisivat ees suoraan sanoneet ettei nappaa"

I stick finnish way

- I thought Finns go abroad and just accept everything and don't complain!!!

Believe me onkko - Nothing works ANYWHERE!!!!! I've lived in a few countries and it's all the same...different things work in different places in a different way. And when you go abroad the bad is always seen quicker than the good. it's not really about working or not...it's about working differently...And why am I writing this? This is what you tell us when we bitch about Finland. Man, you showed yourself to be a real hypocrite.

And I can say very little works in Finland. Just people have this blind nationalism to make up for their own national insecurities.

[Pursuivant]

Finnish families use forms like haepas mulle and tuopas mulle where English-speaking families would use "would you go get me the..." or "could you bring me the..." whatever.

haepas mulle is rude as you'd address a messenger boy "run off and fetch me..."... its hakisitko, the conditional implying the please/could (possibility to say "fetch it yourself you lazy git")

[AldenG]

Well I think Finnish residential construction is probably the best in the world. And if Finns built skyscrapers, those might very well be the best, too. (Even though recent decades have seen some pretty high profile "sick-building" problems caused by failure to give biological factors as much consideration as structural ones.) Such excellence arises from an attitude that wants to know the best way to do something and isn't satisfied with doing less.

But that's oranges, and we're talking about apples.

Expertise in construction is not because of bluntness. And in much of the world, including much of Europe, how you sell your product is more important to success than the actual quality of the product. That's why it's so important for Finnish multinationals to emphasize cultural education for the people who represent them abroad. That includes replacing bluntness and fact-only-fixation with schmoozability.

How 'bout them apples...

[Pursuivant]

i will "headpunc" (you know, use my forehead against nose)

head-punch, for the limeys use "glasgow kiss"

[Bubba Elvis XIV]

Tell a Brit that "this" is w4nk in your country, reply is "yup it sure is, I wish it was better", openly accepting the s h ite bits.

Tell a Finn that "this" is w4nk in your country, reply is "but in your country this is w4nk, and in x country this is w4nk", frantically trying to cover up the s h ite bits.

totally true...I gotta say Brits can at least see the sh!t in their own country. I dont think the house are that bad...but thats cos my family are rich and we have 300 ft thick walls.

What confuses me is if everything is so damn good in Finland why do finns spend half their time trying to copy and lick the arse of everything from other countries?