When a house seller didn't tell you everything..

Cod · Post by **Cod** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:01 am

Hi again.

It turns out that there's quite a 'major' thing that we were never told about when we bought the house. I can't say what exactly it is, not until I know how this should be dealt with - but it concerns the vicinity of buried municipal services to our house.

The house building company didn't show this on their plans for the new build house, and the real-estate agent didn't make us aware of it. The services were completed in 2006, the year we moved in.

I'm putting a figure of at least 10 percent the amount that we will need to drop the price if we resell the property. Maybe more. Personally, I would have thought very long and hard about even moving in.

Does anyone have a few clues as to where to start to address this? What I'm after is compensation for the amount that we will need to drop the house price on resale because of the buried services in comparison to another house say 50 metres away.

My guess is that the house builder takes the lions share of the blame, since there is nothing mentioned on any plan or brochure. Taking on a housing builder sounds formidable, but I'm hoping that Finland has in place some kind of government organisation that works in the interest of house buyers.

Thanks all!

**Sponsor:**

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:12 am

A low cost start would be this:
http://www.kuluttajavirasto.fi/en-GB/
http://www.kuluttajavirasto.fi/Page/cf2 ... f68f8.aspx

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:34 am

What do you mean with buried services? You live next to a pet sematary? The closer you are to a municipal hookup the better, less of your own pipes to lay.

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:17 pm

Pursuivant wrote:What do you mean with buried services? You live next to a pet sematary? The closer you are to a municipal hookup the better, less of your own pipes to lay.

Unless there is sewage pump station or something like that. They can be noisy/smelly.

odon · Post by **odon** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:43 pm

Yeah "what is this buried services" you can say it here......?? we know how to keep a secret...(just whisper.....)LOL

when i bought my house, they did not tell me, the neighbour is an alcoholic who like to listen to suomi iskelma

, maybe i should also complain, the day i came to see the appartement, i think, they send him somewhere with a bottle of koskenkorva

,
anyway he is a harmless guy, just in the summer ....he is literally hanging out of the balcony.......with a bottle !!

umit · Post by **umit** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:20 pm

Try to show it as an asset, when you are selling the house...

"The house has a unique location. It is very close to bus stop, shopping mall, school, post office and buried municipal services!"

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:41 pm

What is the issue if they are buried?

Is it a detatched house with unused building rights that are now useless because the buried services prevent you from extending or building another property?

Cod · Post by **Cod** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:28 pm

..ok, I can see how its hard to get this if you don't know all the info..

we have this running 10m past our bedroom window..a 350MW international DC cable - that's half a nuclear power station..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estlink

edit: sorry, that's 350MW capacity, 150kV DC voltage

Mook · Post by **Mook** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:56 pm

10m, is that safe? There must be a massive magnetic field around that. Do you find that pieces of metal start moving in that direction?

350 MW / 150 000 kV = 200 Amps (it was +/- so maybe it's only 100 A)

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:49 pm

Plant some Man-on-the-moon-marigolds on it so the kids have something for the science project.

onkko · Post by **onkko** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:08 pm

Mook wrote:10m, is that safe? There must be a massive magnetic field around that. Do you find that pieces of metal start moving in that direction?

350 MW / 150 000 kV = 200 Amps (it was +/- so maybe it's only 100 A)

Ohms law doesnt change that much, there is loisvirta etc but current can be counted.
P = UI so I = P/U = 350 000 000/150 000 000 = 2,333.. A. Amount what few lightbulbs take if you think only ampers.
I never heard that its possible to transfer 150 000 000 volts so there is probably mistake and correct is 150kv and correct answer was 2333,33.. ampers and thats a lot.
Air resistance is about 3000 V/cm so 150 000 000V would mean that there is nothing in 50 000cm so i dont find it possible. Anyone under 500m would be in risk to be electrocuted

AldenG · Post by **AldenG** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:27 pm

The Wikipedia link says that you're correct about the voltage, onkko: 150 kv.

So what about shielding in the installation? Isn't that the big question?

I wonder what it would cost to have someone come measure EMR emissions. Maybe not that much?

Is there controversy in Finland about the health effects of being close to high-voltage lines? Does that apply to DC as well as AC? And underground (which must obviously have heavy shielding compared to the bare metal of overhead lines)?

How deeply buried is it? How much physical protection is there against digging into the thing? For instance, does it have a concrete plate over it?

Mook · Post by **Mook** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:06 am

onkko wrote:
Mook wrote:10m, is that safe? There must be a massive magnetic field around that. Do you find that pieces of metal start moving in that direction?

350 MW / 150 000 kV = 200 Amps (it was +/- so maybe it's only 100 A)
Ohms law doesnt change that much, there is loisvirta etc but current can be counted.
P = UI so I = P/U = 350 000 000/150 000 000 = 2,333.. A. Amount what few lightbulbs take if you think only ampers.
I never heard that its possible to transfer 150 000 000 volts so there is probably mistake and correct is 150kv and correct answer was 2333,33.. ampers and thats a lot.
Air resistance is about 3000 V/cm so 150 000 000V would mean that there is nothing in 50 000cm so i dont find it possible. Anyone under 500m would be in risk to be electrocuted

indeed 2000 A (must have been a 0 off)

It's easy enough to shield the electric field ( a la Mr Farraday and his cage), but magnetic fields are a different matter. (with AC the field changes direction but DC, it's of course the same all the time, so I wonder if there'd be some magnetic effect )

Cod · Post by **Cod** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:32 pm

..

Mook wrote:with AC the field changes direction but DC, it's of course the same all the time, so I wonder if there'd be some magnetic effect )

..

..since there's two DC lines going in opposite directions and the line is magnetically shielded, there is no field detectable above the earths normal magnetic field.

Also the line is below ground, there is negligible corona, negligible ionisation...and if there is, it doesn't get to blow around like lines that are above ground with AC transmission.

But all that means very little to the next buyer. All you gotta say is that the Estlink runs just over there and their eyes will roll back in their heads and they'll drop the offer by a good 10% at least...more if they have kids.

I'm happy it's safe technology, but that's not the point, it's all about Joe Bloggs who is the next buyer - he'll just go where there is less risk.

So hence, I wouldn't mind compensation to cover the cost of lost house value since we were never told that we live on top a cable that glows red when Estonia turns on it's saunas on a cold winters night.

Oh, about the concrete cover over the top of it, ah no. It's beneath a gravel road, and I think its about 5ft down - read that somewhere. The bloke at the council chillingly said 'we didn't know they were going to put housing there'.

There is a tiny 'electrical cable below' sign on a post, just before the cable disappears beneath the playground.

Here's an overview during construction...hey, that's my house in the background! (just kidding)

http://www.eees.ee/DOC-d/09.05.06/Elekt ... paev06.pdf

http://www.nordicenergylink.com/index.php?id=35

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