post deleted

[Pursuivant]

However, if your behaviour was a problem when you can't get it...

I think women have a problem of "getting it". As in being happy for what they have and letting their man be in peace. Thats why most women need to see psychiatrists because they are crazy in the head, the men only need to go see a psychiatrist after their women drives them mad.

[Pursuivant]

I don't really want to think of you

Just think of being silent while you're doing that.

[Upphew]

Does this mean that I'm an alcoholic if I "choose" to drink half a bottle of wine every evening? (it's within health-safety limits) You don't seem to get that people can choose this without being physically addicted (which probably means that they have vodka for breakfast)

Most people don't hit the wife or kinds regardless of how much alcohol they have - I guess it's just bad genes if people do...

Nope But when you say "choose", I hope you don't mean choose the way a smoker "chooses" to smoke every day

After I quit smoking, I have wondered who's Idea it is (and who benefits from the thought...) that smoking is hard to stop? So In my book it definitely is a personal choice to smoke. And I am easily addicted to things, be it coffee, tea, sweets, games, gambling, booze... I haven't dared to play any online games and I'm very wary with online poker.

But back to the topic: if one of the partners think that other one drinks too much then it might not alcoholism on the of the drinking one... I'm quite sure that I couldn't live with someone who played WoW as I would be hooked in no time. So the problem might not be alcoholic husband, but different definitions of alcoholism and it's effect on other people. That doesn't mean that the divorce isn't the right move. Especially in this case, as social workers are known to take the female side when deciding child's custody. Best for all would be if you could decide things by yourselves, maybe with help of outside arbitrator.

[AldenG]

Gotta agree with tummansininen and Cory here, they obviously speak from experience. And with kika and Karhunkoski, also. They're all saying what the experts say, and in this case the experts have a lot of experience and insight. I admit that's not always so, but with alcoholism it is.

I see why some people think this is fairly normal, because it is so common in Finland, the rest of the Nordic countries, and Russia. Particularly in the Nordic countries, more people have a genetic intolerance to concentrated grain extracts that makes binge drinking and violence associated with it almost inevitable. When you see so much of it, it almost ceases to look pathological.

That doesn't mean that nagging and constant yammering can't be real problems in their own right. When you watch Finnish movies there is clearly a cultural tradition of the housewife who rules the husband, the kids, the chickens, and the rengit with a busy nose, an iron rolling pin, and an acid tongue. Somehow people think that's cute. Sadly some girls grow up to emulate it either unconsciously or even deliberately, even though it destroys marriages and damages children.

I hope OP goes to monikanaiset.fi and gets good assistance from them.

[Pursuivant]

There is nothing wrong with Finnish men ever anywhere, its these stupid women that is the problem and someone should tell it to these women what is their problem before they come pollute our lives.

I am a Finnish man and I will defend the Finish men to the death. Stop complaining - you have nothing to complain about in the first place.

[Mölkky-Fan]

Vent? we just tip the bucket into a hole in the cr@p heap which we have dug... you must have a very sophisticated set up!

[Pursuivant]

I'm not sophisticated, facts remain at the ground level the same.

[sinikala]

I didn't see MLL mentioned yet, although not directly helpful in this case, MLL are concerned about the effect of alcohol on kids and may be able to advise the OP better than many here http://www.mll.fi/ajankohtaista/ala_valita_alkoholia/

There is nothing wrong with Finnish men ever anywhere, its these stupid women that is the problem and someone should tell it to these women what is their problem before they come pollute our lives.

I am a Finnish man and I will defend the Finish men to the death. Stop complaining - you have nothing to complain about in the first place.

Gotta agree with tummansininen and Cory here, they obviously speak from experience. And with kika and Karhunkoski, also. They're all saying what the experts say, and in this case the experts have a lot of experience and insight. I admit that's not always so, but with alcoholism it is.

You go with your illiterate foreigner education stay where your place is next to the vent where the outhouse is emptied to.

Hank, with the little respect that is due, this is not the thread in which you should be venting your misogynistic bile. Try to put your personal issues to one side and look at it from the angle of the OP, and more importantly from the angle of her 7 month old child.

Where a child is involved, both parents must take responsibility for the care of the child. Going out and drinking, however much, is not the action of a responsible parent, it's the action of a weapons grade idiot. End of. If you can offer advice as to who might help this family with their problems, then go ahead, otherwise, kindly STFU.

[sammy]

Where a child is involved, both parents must take responsibility for the care of the child. Going out and drinking, however much, is not the action of a responsible parent, it's the action of a weapons grade idiot.

I agree with you and Cory on this... drinking whatever and whenever and however much you like may be a "personal choice" if you're single and free but it ceases to be so when you've got family Being a partner and/or a parent is, as Cory said, very much about compromise and respect towards not only yourself but your partner & children too... and this ceases to be a willing compromise, then it's time to ask if one wants to stay in that sort of a relationship anyway.

As sinikala said MLL might be a good source of advice. Also check out http://www.infopankki.fi/en-GB/Family_Problems/ and http://www.infopankki.fi/en-GB/Problems_with_Alcohol/

[sinikala]

Does this mean that I'm an alcoholic if I "choose" to drink half a bottle of wine every evening? (it's within health-safety limits) You don't seem to get that people can choose this without being physically addicted (which probably means that they have vodka for breakfast)

1) nobody but an alcoholic would chose to down half a bottle of wine per day. Long term it would have an effect.

2) Where do you get your health-safety limits, the LD50?! The suggested UK limits for consumption of alcohol per week are 14 units for women, and 21 units for men. Half a bottle of wine contains 4.5 units = 31.5 units per week. Way beyond the upper limit for both men and women. 1 glass per day for women would be within limits, 2 glasses per day would on the limit for men.

I type this as someone with experience of drinkers in their family, one of whom drank themselves to death at 38.

[pseudo]

If the case is so hopeless, get the hell out of it. Nagging is amongst the worst things women can do and they usually do it anyway. It's not gonna help and will never also.. well at least in my case.

Does this Dear Husband of the OP begs for help out? If not, he is doing it on his own choice, so either keep quiet, be supportive, and hope for best or get separation from him. While getting divorce might be easy as it is here, it may not be best available option on the table. I would still give it a try with counselling, and no nagging please.

Usually, a man comes home drunk, and woman barks. Children awake, awed. All blame on man because he is drunk, woman is saint. All she has done is.....

[Mook]

Where a child is involved, both parents must take responsibility for the care of the child.

You may be surprised to find that it doesn't take 2 people, 24x7 to look after a child. (especially when their 7 months old and are likely only to be interested in their mother...)

Going out and drinking, however much, is not the action of a responsible parent, it's the action of a weapons grade idiot.

Funnily enough, the doctor that gave our first one his final post-birth checkup basically told me that I must have a "Varpajaiset". He even offered to right a prescription...

1) nobody but an alcoholic would chose to down half a bottle of wine per day.

or a Frenchman?

Back when I lived in the UK a glass of wine was supposed to be 1 unit, and the safe limit for men was 21 (but they were thinking about raising it to 28)

[AldenG]

Nagging is amongst the worst things women can do...

...or anyone can do.

Here I agree with you. People don't change from nagging, whining, etc. The most common male version is browbeating and belittling, closely followed by withdrawing and other forms of passive punishment. The browbeating and belittling are pretty much the same behavior as nagging and whining, just a hormonal variation.

Nagging is a way of trying to make someone else solve your own problem instead of making your own solution. It is a weak and passive person's crutch. It is ineffective and can become an addiction of its own.

It's not at all clear that the OP actually IS nagging or whining. Insisting that a partner take responsibility, confronting a partner about lies, etc., are not nagging or whining at first. They only become that when you refuse to recognize that the situation will not change and that if you don't take new steps, you'll be on the same hamster wheel 2 years from now. And lindaperuviana, I think the professional help that has been suggested here will be of more value to you than our discussing and philosophizing.

But really, the bottom line is this: Whether your husband is right or wrong, whether he does or doesn't recognize he has a problem, whether he actually has any problem or not (and I believe he does), he's not going to change for you or for his child. If he could, or if he thought it was important to do so, he would have done it already. You've tried the counseling and now he resorts to blaming you. Either he can't change or he could change but he cares more about drinking the same way he has always done than he does about being half of a responsible marriage. Reminding him, checking up on him, smelling his breath, complaining to his parents.... None of these will change the situation. And even though such steps didn't create the problem, they can inflame the situation around the problem. You don't even have to know whether you are being reasonable or unreasonable to recognize that. He's done all the positive changing he's going to do. At this point he is digging in his heels, finding ways to increase his resistance to the changes he won't make. He is sabotaging you and his parents are helping.

Since he won't change for you, it's up to you to change for you and for your baby. Yes, you had a perfect right to expect that your partner would carry his fair share of responsibility. But the reality is that he won't. You need to get one of these organizations to help you find a safe place and a safe way to leave. You can never guarantee the outcome of anything, but if you are taking the right steps you always know that you have done everything that could be done. Bugging him about it is not a useful step. Bugging his parents about it is not a useful step.

That's my amateur opinion, and now I hope you'll get some professional advice on how to handle the situation. As others have said, social workers know how these situations work. They know the offenders lie. They know the offenders' parents lie. They're probably good at figuring out who is telling the truth. The organizations others have suggested will help you find your way.

[Pursuivant]

Hank, with the little respect that is due, this is not the thread in which you should be venting your misogynistic bile. Try to put your personal issues to one side and look at it from the angle of the OP, and more importantly from the angle of her 7 month old child.

I am looking it from the viewpoint of the husband, and you stupid foreigners are the ones who should STFU as all you are saying its only his fault.

[Pursuivant]

1) nobody but an alcoholic would chose to down half a bottle of wine per day..

Howcome the French call that "culture"?