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[Karhunkoski]

1) nobody but an alcoholic would chose to down half a bottle of wine per day..

Howcome the French call that "culture"?

Yup, I think the French have done extremely well as far as alcohol is concerned. They introduce their young to alcohol, encourage them to drink sensibly and involve alcohol in their "shared family meal" culture. Yes they do have a high intake per capita, but you don't see so many French males pissing their trousers in public, whilst sat on a public bench, surrounded by broken glass.

[Pursuivant]

I've got a very good set of photos of winos from France. I think the only difference for Finnish winos is they got dogs.

[sinikala]

Where a child is involved, both parents must take responsibility for the care of the child.

You may be surprised to find that it doesn't take 2 people, 24x7 to look after a child. (especially when their 7 months old and are likely only to be interested in their mother...)

And in turn you may be surprised it find takes more than 1 person, 24x7 to look after a child. As Sammy put, compromise is needed if a child is involved. Going off and getting sozzled and leaving the wife to it is an outdated chauvinistic approach to parenting, which one would hope was left behind sometime in the mid 20th century.

Personally I'd say you're pissing into the wind trying to defend the use/abuse of alcohol around infants. Getting drunk infront of children sets a bad example and will strongly increase the probability that the child will have alcohol issues later in life.

1) nobody but an alcoholic would chose to down half a bottle of wine per day.

or a Frenchman?

French consumption of wine is the highest of any of the western countries, but as I recall they drink a lot of lower percentage wines at meal times, closer to the 7% end of the vin de table scale as opposed to the upper end of 14%. The French also use a huge amount of wine in cooking which skews the numbers further still. I find it hard to beleive that the average frenchman downs half a bottle every day.

After a little googling the average French consumption per capita is 0.22 bottles per day http://www.wineinstitute.org/files/PerC ... ntries.pdf and taking children out of that would raise it to about 0.27 bottles.

Back when I lived in the UK a glass of wine was supposed to be 1 unit, and the safe limit for men was 21 (but they were thinking about raising it to 28)

Well, as far as I know, they never did raise that limit. If the glass is 125ml and the wine 8% abv then yes, it is 1 unit. But when did you last buy a bottle of wine with 8% alcohol? Most wines today are around 11-13%, so a 125 ml glass contains 1.5 units, a 750ml bottle today typically contains 9 units.

Half a bottle per day is quite enough, but if drinking by the glass it can be even higher. Nowadays the 175 ml glass is more commonly used than 125ml, which means a 13% abv wine can contain up to 2.3 units http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3303805.stm in that case, three large glasses of wine would chalk up 48.3 units per week, well over double the recommended limit.

[sinikala]

1) nobody but an alcoholic would chose to down half a bottle of wine per day..

Howcome the French call that "culture"?

We are going far off topic here, and I am only continuing in this thread as other people are passing off opinion as fact, anyway I think it has already been addressed

i) the French drink a lot of lower strength wines, and generally at mealtimes and often with family which is a lot safer and more social way of consuming alcohol than the Northern European method
ii) the French use a lot of wine in cooking
iii) even when you forget about the above points, they still only consume around 1/4 of a bottle per day

[Pursuivant]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... onsumption

France is higher on pure alcohol per capita consumption, and I don't think its all brandy.

[Mook]

Where a child is involved, both parents must take responsibility for the care of the child.

You may be surprised to find that it doesn't take 2 people, 24x7 to look after a child. (especially when their 7 months old and are likely only to be interested in their mother...)

And in turn you may be surprised it find takes more than 1 person, 24x7 to look after a child. As Sammy put, compromise is needed if a child is involved. Going off and getting sozzled and leaving the wife to it is an outdated chauvinistic approach to parenting, which one would hope was left behind sometime in the mid 20th century.

I don't think that we're talking about drinking 24x7. Both parents are entitled to the odd nght out, aren't they?

Anyhow, now I understand how you're one of the "we don't want to have children, children spoil your life" lot.

Personally I'd say you're pissing into the wind trying to defend the use/abuse of alcohol around infants. Getting drunk infront of children sets a bad example and will strongly increase the probability that the child will have alcohol issues later in life.

Who said anything about drinking in front of them? Children do go to bed sometimes... and parents can go out.

And, if drinking some wine with a meal results in getting drunk, weeeel....

[sinikala]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... onsumption

France is higher on pure alcohol per capita consumption, and I don't think its all brandy.

You are mixing up 2 issues (i) average consumption of alcohol per capita and (ii) acceptable individual consumption.

The latter is what we are discussing here and is invariably a higher number than the former.

Half a bottle of wine = 375 ml
Half a bottle per day = 182,5 litres wine per year.
At 13% alcohol = 23,7 litres of alcohol per year.

Which exceeds not only France's consumption of 13.54 litres of alcohol per year, but also Uganda's 19.47 litres.

[sinikala]

...

[ajdias]

1) nobody but an alcoholic would chose to down half a bottle of wine per day.

Not that I disagree with you in general but my old man would probably drink more than that, 6 days a week. Now he has cut it down but I am pretty sure that we'd refill that bottle (straight from the cask) 4 or more times a week and I wasn't old enough to join him. I might have seen him tipsy once, on easter day after he had some scotch, but never drunk.

Dunno about France but I don't think we have much less of an alcohol problem than Finland. Here is somehow accepted, or people expect to get away with public drinking while there is rather shameful (and hidden).

[sammy]

And in turn you may be surprised it find takes more than 1 person, 24x7 to look after a child. As Sammy put, compromise is needed if a child is involved. Going off and getting sozzled and leaving the wife to it is an outdated chauvinistic approach to parenting, which one would hope was left behind sometime in the mid 20th century.

To make a further specification -concerning parents' "nights out" - the question is whether these nights out are agreed on by common consent (which seems not to be the case for the OP) and whether they occur a few times per year... or on a several times per week basis... and also how the partying half behaves when he/she returns home after having a bit of the old ale.

If those who stay at home feel insecure, and are indeed exposed to physical violence or other sort of abuse, it ain't looking too good.

Sheer physical health issues aside, I might define an alcoholic not based on how much or how often a person drinks beer or wine or whatever - but on the effects of what alcohol brings about to his/her life & the surrounding people. If it brings something else than joy and enjoyment, then I'm not sure if it's a good thing.

[ajdias]

However, if your behaviour was a problem when you can't get it...

I think women have a problem of "getting it". As in being happy for what they have and letting their man be in peace. Thats why most women need to see psychiatrists because they are crazy in the head, the men only need to go see a psychiatrist after their women drives them mad.

That might be true but nobody can drive you crazy or an alcoholic unless you allow them to. Sorry if it sounds like I am preaching but there are very few things that one has to put up with in this country (like an alcoholic father if you're a child). It is still up to you to let the nagging hit you, it's your (one's) decision to go on drinking. At the very least you can turn your back and walk away from that person.

[Pursuivant]

no one knows what goes on inside the relationship.

Exactly. Maybe the issue is hitting on some raw nerves but you are right Cory. A relationship is between two parties, and the thing is there needs to be a consensus instead of trying to find a fault in the other as in "upper hand" or "who is wrong" - two wrongs don't make a right.

I am just being a "anti-feminist" as its always the mans fault whatever he does, and I just demand thinking the same way in the mirror. How about if its always the womans fault first - she is the one doing everything wrong. So try live comfortably with that thought before saying its the man doing always the things wrong. If its not comfortable then don't jump on the bandwagon blaming the man. After all there are two - equal - partners in a relationship.

[Pursuivant]

Why is it that when some rather less-than-positive issue comes up that the finger is always pointed outwards to some other culture?

Because you are trying to be better than us, and I think it was the definition of "alcoholism" we were after. It doesn't really have anything to do with the rate of consumption per se, but rather with how you drink. So drinking a beer daily is not "alcoholism" or then the French is a nation of alcoholics by that definition.

[Karhunkoski]

Why is it that when some rather less-than-positive issue comes up that the finger is always pointed outwards to some other culture? "Look...it happens there, too!"

- Ignore
- Deny
- Justify

[Mook]

..., you obnoxious little !"#¤%.

ah name-calling. Cool, I get to say what I really meant

And in turn you may be surprised it find takes more than 1 person, 24x7 to look after a child.

I have two children under 3 years - I know what it takes, you sanctimonious twat.