Toiminimi & unemployment benefits

Patrick1970 · Post by **Patrick1970** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:07 pm

Hi there,

I am planning to start my own company soon. Since it will be a one-man business, I intend to register it as a TMI.

Now, at this moment I receive unemployment benefits. When I eventually start off the business, it will of course take some time before my income becomes high enough to support myself.

So what I would like to know is, when you register a TMI and start up a one-man business (this would be a primary and only income, by the way), do the unemployment benefits stop alltogether from day one, or do they decrease as your income goes up?

**Sponsor:**

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:27 pm

No, if you are unemployed that means you sit on your ass without initiative. Anything the MOL doesn't put you on be it a course or work placement will cut your benefits. You should be looking into starttiraha at the TE-keskus. If you can get it, then you get something for 6 months. And after that 6 months if you are not in business... good luck trying to convince the employment office to un-entrepeneur you.

Patrick1970 · Post by **Patrick1970** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:31 pm

So if I were to start up a business, even a TMI, then my benefits would stop completely and immediately, correct?

I do know about the starttiraha, but as far as I know there are quite a few requirements to be met with that before they think about giving it to you. Plus you would need to apply for it first before registering your business.

Patrick1970 · Post by **Patrick1970** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:32 pm

By the way, I am currently taking a Finnish integration/language course, if that makes any difference.

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:58 pm

As you live far far away I won't suggest that you walk into the "INTO" office in Kamppi.... but you could send them an email and ask the exact same question that you just posted on here. www.intofinland.fi (email address at the bottom of the page)

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:17 pm

Patrick1970 wrote: I do know about the starttiraha, but as far as I know there are quite a few requirements to be met with that before they think about giving it to you.

Like having a viable business plan. Yes. If you are on an integration plan you should have the TE keskus giving out enterpreneurship classes. And you need to know "how stuff works" in Finland, the taxation gets tricky if you don't know the proper paperwork. And things everybody knows but nobody tells you such as if you make a turn and end up owing the tax office 10 000 as a TMI, that is your personal liability and they'll sell your house and dog to get their money.

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:55 pm

There is a paragraph in my Starting a Business book which says:

Subsequent cover of a beginning entrepreneur (... baaaadddd translation

)

If the person becoming an entrepreneur has received a daily allowance from an employee fund immediately before becoming an entrepreneur, the period of the subsequent cover is always 18 months. If he becomes unemployed during the subsequent cover, he can start receiving the daily allowance up to the maximum 500 days.

Now I have no idea what that means, but it would appear that there is some provision (somewhere, in Finnish) for a situation such as yours.

When I did the TE Keskus course they told us that starttiraha is only intended to pay your food bills in the first few months. It is not intended to be used as working capital for the business.

Pursuivant is right that your business plan should make provision for your cash flow situation. Most people when they start a business take out a bank loan or obtain funds from some other source in order to pay themselves a minimum wage in the beginning. OTOH, the idea of ramping down unemployment benefit while you ramp up a business is - IMO - great.

I am not sure at what time you technically become "employed". Is it when you register the TMI? I'm not so sure. Presumably you could be a shareholder in an Oy (not an employee) and still be unsalaried and therefore unemployed (

). So why would a TMI be any different.

I think you need to ask KELA.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:23 pm

The thing also is once you get the business running start to pay up to the yrittäjien työttömyyskassa as well. That way you are covered in case of unnemployment.

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:32 am

Pursuivant wrote:The thing also is once you get the business running start to pay up to the yrittäjien työttömyyskassa as well. That way you are covered in case of unnemployment.

"But you are not unemployed, as you are entrepreneur..."

Dunno how it nowadays work, but I have second hand experiences about that answer... and as someone smarter than me said:

good luck trying to convince the employment office to un-entrepeneur you.

JimmyBang · Post by **JimmyBang** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:08 am

...which brings me to this, (and the enterprise helsinki people cant tell me), If I get my monthly money for the business, and after the six months, or however long, my business has to close...am I not eligable for unemployment?

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:14 am

I can't think of many reasons why a business would have to close after 6 months. It is only just getting started. Your business plan should take into account that you will need maybe 1-2 years to ramp up your business (depending on what you are doing, it could be much more) and your cashflow and working capital calculations should take all that into account.

What do you mean by "enterprise Helsinki people"? Is this the TE Keskus? They should know the answer to those questions, if not then ask KELA. Who is paying your unemployment benefit at the moment? Ask them.

JimmyBang · Post by **JimmyBang** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:28 am

ask KELA?

?...they dont know their own name sometimes, I mean, sometimes (98.9%) when i ask them something, their answer is usually " yep, everythings ok" , or..."hmmm, you'll have to go here and get this from them so you can go there to leave that with him, and after we get those from them, THEN we can tell you no"

But anyway... I dont expect to be closed after 6 months, Im just curious as to the hypethetical answer to the (hypethetical) question.
My business plan has been reviewed and tweeked and they want me to fill out the "money" papers and get started. Iam just alittle fearful of doing the final step because, if i missed anything...Im F/?=¤D!

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:35 am

yeah but...

If someone on here says, "sure you can get unemployment benefit as soon as your business fails" and then you go belly up, what are you going to do? Walk into KELA and say "someone called 87*pink%99 on Finland Forum told me I could get unemployement benefit so where's the form and where's my cash

?????

I don't think you should rely on answers from people on here...

But good luck anyway.

JimmyBang · Post by **JimmyBang** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:29 am

well yeah!?... but trust me, im not going to take what anyone says here as the law, and I would expect that someon answering might know because they actually have gone through it. But, believe it or not, I've actually recieved some better info here than i have from the official offices. Just shows to go ya...

Patrick1970 · Post by **Patrick1970** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:09 pm

Thanks for your feedback.

Penelope, you mentioned a course by TE Keskus. Is this an obligatory course when you want to become an entrepreneur? I just need to know because I am currently enrolled in a Finnish language course which lasts till January, and I would really like to get the ball rolling before that already.

Finland Forum

Find information about moving to, living in and life in Finland