Plywood panels

[AldenG]

What is the standard size of plywood panels in the EU? Is it 1200 x 2400, perchance?

Does anyone happen to know offhand the rough retail price (quantity 4 to 20, say) of furniture-quality birch plywood panels about that size (or whatever is the standard size) in a thickness of 1.25 to 2 cm?

I must not be Googling the right things. Vaneri and vaneri hinnasto and vaneri hinnasto helsinki do not seem to be bringing up DIY or builder's supply stores. Maybe my IP address is a factor.

[meplusthree]

here are some of the main building supply outlets
http://www.k-rauta.com
http://www.puukeskus.fi/fi/
http://www.starkki.fi
But I dont think you will find the prices !

May I ask why you want the info ? just being nosey

[Pursuivant]

Sizes... yeah http://www.puukeskus.fi/fi/Tuotteet/Rak ... t/Vanerit/
Furniture quality - you mean oksaton? You pay ass off...

For wood you need to call & ask

[AldenG]

May I ask why you want the info ? just being nosey

Gathering info to make decisions about how to implement a move.

I will probably construct some things like a bedframe consisting of under-bed storage-drawer modules, some sectional seating with under-seat storage, and possibly some wall cabinets topped with bookshelves -- all movable in reasonably small pieces, of course. The price probably isn't decisive but before I work out too much in my head I want to be sure I'm not basing everything on false assumptions about standard sizes and grades. I could do all that stuff IN an apartment in a month or so before actually moving other stuff into it. That way I wouldn't need a rental garage or workshop of the type I had earlier inquired about.

[Pursuivant]

*ahem* unless you are buying a house, your neighbours will.. hrm... lets put it this way - don't move into my house

DIY isn't "cheap". Firstly the materials & tools cost, the doing gets time, and you can get the same design sh*t from IKEA for a fraction of what you pay for one board of plywood.

What I do is go to "köyhien stocka" in Tattarisuo a.k.a. "Helsingin metalli ja rauta" (yeah the same "köyhien stocka" junkyard that used to be in the Pikku-Huopalahti swamp remember at the Mannerheimintie end intersection across from the bus depot back in the days you were here). Tattis is still tattis but less honest joes. Which should be noted "Helsingin metalli ja rauta" they sell neither metal nor iron. Anyways they sell plywood but also thick "ends" for an euro you can make into shelves & stuff...

Only stupid fore... people with abundance of money and little common sense go buy full-price from the rip-off centres.

Next time you're in town you need to book a tour "Hank does seedy parts of town". We can go have lunch at the Rape.

[AldenG]

Sizes... yeah http://www.puukeskus.fi/fi/Tuotteet/Rak ... t/Vanerit/
Furniture quality - you mean oksaton? You pay ass off...

For wood you need to call & ask

I would probably go with sanded birch but when the time comes, I'll just have to see the options. They might be surprisingly different from what I'm used to seeing. Then again maybe not.

Here, birch (which doesn't grow anywhere close to where I live) plywood is always high-grade, highly sanded and clear (oksaton) on the outside layers. It's about $50 for 4x8 foot 3/4", which is about 1200x2400 approx 2cm. So I'd be guessing € 50-100 or maybe even worse. But I would be painting, not varnishing, so there might be some quality compromises available that would give acceptable results at a reduced price.

DIY isn't "cheap". Firstly the materials & tools cost, the doing gets time, and you can get the same design sh*t from IKEA for a fraction of what you pay for one board of plywood.

Well, it partly depends on the size of the price differential. IKEA isn't exactly cheap here, though it often looks that way. (Estate auctions are a better source.) Maybe it's cheaper in Finland despite mostly being made in places like Indonesia. I know one of the first things that impressed me living in Sweden was that there were options like IKEA so that the people with the least money to spend were still able to live with dignity and decent-looking stuff.

I go to IKEA for lunch sometimes, or to stock up on herring, and I get a chuckle out of all the BMWs and Mercedes and Cadillac Escalades of people lining up for the privilege of fetching their own furniture and packing their own bags for the Scandinavian equivalent of K-Mart chic. The durability leaves a lot to be desired compared to some of the talonpoikais pieces we've had in the past. But it's way better than the cheapest furniture options in the US, that's certainly true.

In one of the apartments I was recently visiting, there was a sign that said "no remodeling on Sundays." So apparently people are remodeling on other days and it's just an annoyance neighbors expect to put up with from time to time. I figure this is much less disruptive than remodeling, especially if the sawing is done in the middle of the day when people are supposed to be at work. In thick-walled old buildings, sawing should be the only thing that neighbors even notice unless we collide in the hallway when I have people carrying supplies up to the apartment.

So apart from anonymous notes through the mail slot, am I overlooking major barriers?

Thanks for all the links, both of you.

P.S. One of our biggest problems will be "stuff" -- even after trying to scrape the barnacles clean. That is in fact the primary motivation for things like a bed atop deep storage drawers, putting drawers into sectional seating, etc. And it's possibly the biggest reason for looking at a 1.5 to 2.5 year move date.

[AldenG]

Forgot to ask:

Why does birch come in "non-standard" sizes compared to most of the other options in the tables in those links?

EDITED: Nonsensical "what" to "why" above.

[Pursuivant]

Its used in internal panelling stuff... the standard sizes are for concrete cast molds etc.

[Pursuivant]

Well, it partly depends on the size of the price differential.

Plywood = expensive, Ikea = cheap. Actually its probably Finnish plywood you are buying hauled across the globe. We pay the premium price here for everything. But your third way as in estate sales is the way to score antiques or "antiques".... depends what kind of "design" yo are looking. IKEA for me in a totally empty flat with no old furniture would be your 1970's modern design heaven. They've ripped off all the 60's 70's stuff you see sold for megabucks in "design" stores. Which in my eyes look like "modern IKEA crap"

[davin]

Size could be uk size, ie 2240 by 1220.
Puukeskus sells it but is pricey.
Cheaper option is Baltic rather than Finnish birch ply, ie latvian ply.
Funny thing is , Finnish birch ply is sometimes cheaper in the uk than in Finland.


http://www.slhardwoods.co.uk/SheetMater ... aspx?ID=25
http://www.lathamtimber.co.uk/InformationA.118.html
http://www.lathamtimber.co.uk/images/Li ... %20Ply.pdf

Sorry couldnt find any finnish links, Maple veneered ply or mdf is cheaper than first grade birch ply, i use it all the time, can`t tell the difference.
ps did you find a workshop ? Any space for me? and what do I look look for if searching for a small workshop (ie 30 to 50 square metres) on helsinki property website ?
thanks

[AldenG]

Thanks for the additional info. That looks like about twice the price I'm used to, which was within my frame of expectations.

I won't be moving until probably Jan of 2011 or 2012 or maybe somewhere in between, so the workshop inquiries were future reference, not a current need.

Hank is trying to talk me out of building anything (probably because he knows I intend to take a flat right next door to his) and he may be right. But he has accidentally given me another idea. Since I don't intend to be a long-term workshopper, and since the purpose is to put storage under the bed and under some seats, perhaps I will create the modules here and ship them full of the stuff they're ultimately intended to hold. The under-bed modules were going to be 6-8 separable pieces anyway, so that each can be handled by one person when empty. The futon that was recently advertised here, as well as much else that IKEA sells, can just as well sit on top of a drawer module as on flimsy little screw-in legs.

So I'm still mulling things over.

Next I need to look up Finnish mattress sizes.

[Pursuivant]

200x80(bogstandard),200x90, 200x120, 200x140, 200x160 =fits into a double frame, people usually use 2x80 if they're "weighted" mattrasses though... bigger bedframe... you live in a mansion, eh?

[raamv]

Had a futon shipped here... and one nut of the futon which was a hinge broke and the wood gave way..so without wood-glue or others, it was not working properly..
We were not able to find another Futon frame that suited our needs nor the size except in IKEA...but then we gave away our queen size mattress to one of our friends who is using it as a Diwan...and will get a frame from IKEA ( since they didn't know about it ).
One piece of advice is that, Don't ship wood items that can break/crack etc..as you will not be able to find equivalent replacements..
you can always check the dimensions of materials from the ikea web pages..
www.ikea.fi
Also, go to the housing section in this forum and read the sticky about apartment rules...
( No noisy neighbors.. etc etc )

[AldenG]

OK, I've been away on a brief trip but will follow up on these suggestions when I get home.

[Rosamunda]

200x80(bogstandard),200x90, 200x120, 200x140, 200x160 =fits into a double frame, people usually use 2x80 if they're "weighted" mattrasses though... bigger bedframe... you live in a mansion, eh?

BTW Finns tend to use single quilts even on double beds. Even Ikea doesn't have a big selection of super-king size quilts and covers.

In the first place we rented in Espoo, our double bed wouldn't fit in the master bedroom. Well it did fit... but we couldn't open the doors of the fitted wardrobes.

When comparing prices (eg USA or UK) don't forget we have 22% ALV here which could partly explain why Finnish timber is cheaper in the UK than in Finland. Many Finnish products are cheaper abroad: I found Lumene products were cheaper in Florida than in Espoo .