some questions about Finland public transport

[Rosamunda]

It sounds to me like you should load TIME onto your card for HELSINKI and then put some VALUE (cash) onto your card for the trips to Espoo. When you get on the bus you press #2 if you want to cross the zone boundary (ie HEL-> Espoo or Espoo-> HEL) and the machine automatically charges you just the DIFFERENCE between the cost of the Helsinki ticket and the regional ticket.

Thanks for your help Penelope, by the way could you explain me a little bit more about the VALUE and TIME issues of the travel card?

First thing, the underlined part in Penelope's answer is wrong. Yes, they marketed the then new travel card system some five years ago with that feature, and then quite promptly took it away.

Oh Sorry. Well that is TOTALLY stupid. But good to know as I need to rethink my own bus pass for the next few weeks as soon as my work schedule is sorted.

IF you commute or otherwise use public transport almost everyday the relative prices make charging "TIME" sensible. If you live in Helsinki use transportation there a lot but visit Espoo only once a week then having some 'VALUE' is good for those trips (while having a Helsinki internal "TIME"), but if you visit Espoo more often than that then it is better to have the YTV region TIME ticket. (because you'd always pay the full price for individual Helsinki-.Espoo trips, even if you had the Helsinki internal 'TIME' ticket)

Did you work out the maths behind this? Is the break-even >1 trip per week? I would've thought you needed to travel 3-4 times a week before it made sense to load regional time onto the card.

(*)Many people find the buttons hard to use on the first try. Have your both hands free, put your the ticket flat to center of the machine centering on the point between the big numbered buttons, and when you see the text "choose your trip" (or something similar) in the machine screen, press the right button with your other hand while keeping the card by the center of the machine. If you see the green (or yellow) light then it worked OK. Don't press twice or you will pay twice.

Maybe I have a dodgy card but I am always having problems with those machines. And I've noticed I am not the only one. It seems people with time loaded cards are OK, but when you need to press (2) to debit the value on your card the machines don't always work so well.

[Pursuivant]

If its got both time&money the box gets a bit confused, especially if you're still within a transfer period but decide to go to Espoo...

[Rip]

Did you work out the maths behind this? Is the break-even >1 trip per week? I would've thought you needed to travel 3-4 times a week before it made sense to load regional time onto the card.

If you want to be really sure, check my math. The assumptions what used as a basis were: The person in question has in any case a 'TIME' ticket for at least Helsinki city and when talking about trips to Espoo we are talking about trips long enough that you need to buy two separate value tickets for the return trip.

If I made no mistake then having a Helsinki 'TIME' period + 2 return trips/week to Espoo (= four separate number '2' VALUE payments per week) gets more costly than having 'TIME' ticket for the Helsinki-Espoo-Vantaa YTV area.

I think 3 return trips week is roughly the limit where getting the YTV area TIME gets to be the cheapest option if the other alternative is simply walking or cycling within Helsinki area (no Helsinki internal tickets of any kind, just the VALUE trips to Espoo when needed)

The prices for occasional users are quite high, commuting is relatively much more affordable - and you get no benefit from Helsinki internal ticket if you need visit Espoo.

[Pursuivant]

+ if you have a case of "oops" and get smurfed... having YTV "time" gives peace of mind.

[maxxfi]

having YTV "time" gives peace of mind.

...plus e.g. at a crowded train stop you can quickly zip through the crowd and go to sit
while the others newcomers are still queuing at the machine to mark their ticket

[Pursuivant]

well you're supposed to validate it

[Rip]

well you're supposed to validate it

Voluntary in trains, subway and trams:

The Travel Card has to be shown to the card reader every time a passenger boards a bus or enters the commuter train platform area through VR’s fare collection gate by night. On other vehicles, it is not necessary to show the card to the reader if there is a valid period or value ticket on the card.

http://www.ytv.fi/ENG/transport/guide/t ... eneral.htm

[Pursuivant]

shows how much I use my card I got only money on mine

[maxxfi]

By the way, was it so that now in autumn they are going to replace all the YTV cards,
as they are renewing the whole system?

[Rip]

Cards will be replaced in charging points. As far as I know there is not supposed to be really any changes from the user perspective (except the new tourist tickets)

[maxxfi]

Yup. If I can remember correctly, the new card should make the system more versatile,
so it can later implement any extravagant algorithm they'll decide to use for the multi-zone fare

[joanmanuel]

about the card reader, for example if I have charged my card with TIME, I had to press any buttom specifying where am I going (local or regional? or that is not needed?
one good thing is that they do not charge you if in a day I have to make a lot of trips back and forward to some place as I read in another post
by the way, I do not really have a clear idea is about the Metro service, my travel card does not work there so I should buy a ticket? or I got any discount for having the travel card?

[Rosamunda]

http://www.ytv.fi/ENG/transport/guide/

The transport guide is in English and I think you should be able to find answers to all your questions in there.

But for starters....

If you bought TIME for HELSINKI then this includes the metro, tram, bus and the ferry to Suomenlinna and also the local trains. You do not need to pay anything extra AS LONG AS YOU STAY INSIDE THE HELSINKI ZONE (ie Vantaa and Espoo are NOT included).

If you bought TIME for ESPOO then you will have to pay for all your trips into Helsinki including bus, metro and tram etc (I think this was explained above).

Assuming you have HELSINKI TIME on your card then it is not necessary to press a button on the card reader (the green light should come on) if you are boarding the tram, the metro etc. But you can press (1) on the bus. If you are boarding an Espoo bus in Helsinki then you should press either (1) or (2) depending on where you plan to get off the bus (1) for Helsinki and (2) for Espoo (but you will have to pay for the latter with VALUE).

I'm not sure I understand why your card doesn't work in the metro. If you put HELSINKI TIME on your card then it should work in the metro too. If you have doubts go to one of the YTV service points (eg in Kamppi) and test your card or ask for help.

[tizlit]

Being "new" myself in Finland, indeed this buscard system looks rather complicated, what with reading all these replies.
Why not integrate Espoo and Vantaa with Helsinki, everybody paying the same fee, that is a flat fee?
As for Penelope's comment about the busdriver getting lost - don't you know that the drivers get a different busroute to drive, changing constantly, some of the foreign drivers speak basic Finnish, some of them may even let one travel free (yes it has happened) though I would not recomment this!!!
Once met a driver, he said he was just given this bus, first day in his job, and told DRIVE. Felt sort of sorry for him.

[Rip]

Assuming you have HELSINKI TIME on your card then it is not necessary to press a button on the card reader (the green light should come on) if you are boarding the tram, the metro etc. But you can press (1) on the bus. If you are boarding an Espoo bus in Helsinki then you should press either (1) or (2) depending on where you plan to get off the bus (1) for Helsinki and (2) for Espoo (but you will have to pay for the latter with VALUE).

If you press any buttons in a bus, you will be charged a 'Value' ticket even if you had 'time' on your card. You'd only want to do that if A) your 'Time' period is not valid for the trip (You have only Helsinki internal 'time' and you want to travel from Helsinki to Espoo (or the opposite direction) (you press (2), or you want to make a Espoo internal trip (press (1))

If you have press (1) in Helsinki while you are in Helsinki and have Helsinki internal time on your card, machine assumes you are paying the additional fare for somebody who travels with you .

Your card, if it is valid in bus, should work in Metro too. If the Metro 'gate' machines really do not register it, you could perhaps go the HKL or YTV service points (the former has a more practical location) and ask what is the problem. Alternatively you can just use metro and show your card to the 'smurfs' if you encounter them. 'Validating' a valid 'time' period ticket is is voluntary in metro.