Why so many divorce?

risto777 · Post by **risto777** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:07 am

Last week, in NOKIA lunch time, having lunch with other two colleagues, we three foreigners all had married with Finnish woman, now all divored. Why ??? !!!
In my case, 11 years. I thought I have already passed the most dangerous period, but I was wrong.

Why is wrong with this country?

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maurine · Post by **maurine** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:31 am

maybe they needed change. have you ever thought of that? i guess it is a little bit sad for you since you had 11 years of it. some think its either they stay married and miserable for the rest of thier life or get a divorce and become happier. i guess the reason why people divorce here is because its easier to get one. and by the way its cheap. only a bill of 80 euros and you split the bill so its 40.....yeah i know its sucks thinking that way, but !"#¤% happens. cant help it.

Karhunkoski · Post by **Karhunkoski** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:29 am

Where are you form originally risto777?

Do people get divorced there?

kaisaella · Post by **kaisaella** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:58 pm

Perhaps it has nothing to do with this country but more with the cultural differences between you "foreigners" and the Finnish women you married!

Karhunkoski · Post by **Karhunkoski** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:55 pm

kaisaella wrote:Perhaps it has nothing to do with this country

I beg to differ.

In some countries women are forced to stay in unhappy marriages, whereas in Finland, to a certain extent, this is less so. So perhaps women in all countries encounter unhappy marriages, but in some countries it is easier for women to escape, in which case it has EVERYTHING to do with which country they live in.

Oombongo · Post by **Oombongo** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:43 pm

men can be unhappy too. You know, listening to naggings after work

Karhunkoski · Post by **Karhunkoski** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:57 pm

Oombongo wrote:men can be unhappy too. You know, listening to naggings after work

Yes true, but that wasn't my point. But just to help you understand, let's take Finland and a random foreign country, erm, let's choose Saudi Arabia.

Finland:

An unhappy man - easy to get a divorce
A unhappy woman - easy to get a divorce
Result - a high divorce rate

Saudi:

An unhappy man - easy to get a divorce
An unhappy woman - not easy to get a divorce
Result - divorce rate is somewhat lower than in Finland

Clear now?

raamv · Post by **raamv** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:18 pm

Karhu is somewhat right..
Even though Most countries are improving the marital laws..But still the cultural barriers are higher..
The reason 2 people decide to split is bcos either of them have failed to work on their relationships and take things for granted..
Its not like once you start a certain period of marital life, you can start taking things for granted and say..Yay...Now I have marital tenure..

OpenMindedMother · Post by **OpenMindedMother** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:14 pm

My opinion: it is too easy to get a divorce in Finland. The truth is that all couples in the world have problems, no relationship with too "head" involved is perfect. Many times, problems can be overwhelming, more if they are combined with problems in other external factors like work, children, other family members, etc. So, if someone in Finland feels like marriage is getting too problematic, it is easy and cheap to divorce and go out soon and in an easy way. There is not even one mandatory session with some marriage councellor who could maybe help the couple to see that their problems can be solved. In other countries, getting divorced is so difficult (both parties have to agree, mandatory marriage concelling, reason of divorce has to be clearly stated, etc) that it kind of encourage people to try to find solutions and fight for their marriage. Yes, if things are really not possible to solve, it's better to get divorced and make sepparated happy lives... but this should be the last resource, after all other resources have been tried... that's why marriage is a commitment that requires everyday work from both sides.

AldenG · Post by **AldenG** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:31 am

raamv wrote:Now I have marital tenure..

I thought marriage WAS tenure.

Coming from some old Latin verb like tenere (or something like that), meaning "to hold or grasp firmly, as by the balls..."

There is a marking in classical music known as tenuto, or held, meaning roughly "Think very carefully before you make any sudden moves away from this note."

st3v3 · Post by **st3v3** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:09 am

Just because Divorce is easy, shouldn't be a reason for it. There does appear to be need to look at a greater underlying reason for commencement of divorce. There can be much pain, heartache, and stress on all involved in the event of a divorce, and despite foreigners opinions of Finnish culture, there is nothing to indicate, any distinct coldness or cruelty in Finnish psyche to want to intentionally put families through that. I would be interested in the statistics, comparing the divorce rate between multinational (mixed Finnish) marriages, and all Finnish marriages.

I to, have recently separated after 6 years in a relationship, with only just three years marriage, I am originally from the UK, we have one 3 year old girl of our own, and three older kids from my wifes previous marriage (yes I was the second). In my personal experience, the excuses offered were that we were incompatible, and I was not what she had originally believed me to be, and she would rather end it now, then live a lie (despite waiting 6 years?). We had our fair share of arguments for the past two years, and maybe in hindsight things may have been awry far earlier, but in true Finnish style nothing was really brought to the table for discussion., until it was to late, then it was bickering and finger pointing, messy!

I believe it more to do with the Finnish perspective on relationships and marriage. Personally to me marriage is pretty sacred, not in a religious sense for me , I am not religious, but from a commitment, its a true test of personal, emotional and mental strength,trust, some sacrifice and common ground, and should not be entered to lightly, or for any other reason but for love, adoration or devotion to ones spouse, and their happiness.Ok, so I'm a traditionalist, old fashioned, but thats my take. However herein lies the issue. The sanctity or at least the institution of marriage these days, seems to have lost merit, at least outside religious circles (which is sad in itself, and fuels the over zealous religious warriors of this world). Not only is it too easy to get divorced, but its too easy to jump into marriage. Despite my atheist path, I was raised as a Roman Catholic, to a Catholic Irish Mother and Welsh-Methodist father, so I was in the melting pot of strong relationships and thick and thin marriages.

Yes my base view on marriage probably stems from my parents 37 years and still strong marriage, but its far from the religious ethos, of my parents day. Yet from this at least from my mothers perspective, getting married included having lengthy discussions with ones family and priest before the wedding day, ensuring full knowledge of what was intended (and of course expected, in the Catholic sense), one couldn't simply get married and that was that. Don't misunderstand me though, I'm not advocating remaining in an unhappy marriage or abusive relationship, if all channels have failed, and happiness is threatened, however, I am pushing for the idea that greater thought should be placed into the reasons for marriage before the act, and if in fact marriage is indeed the correct direction for the relationship. One thing in Finland I have found in many of my friends, is that there are those who have a happy family life with kids mortgages and the like, but never marry. Such situations are further supported, by the equal opportunities given for cohabiting couples in Finland married or not, childcare, finances etc.

It may sound like a DOH! Homer Simpson moment, but the less marriages, the lower the potential of a high divorce rate! This suggestion extends to mixed marriages even more, as the cultural, traditional and obvious differences inherent in any mixed marriage, may provide a negative effect upon the relationship in terms of expectations in marriage. In my case, it was our different perspectives on the reasons for marriage, exacerbated, by communication issues caused by linguistic, cultural and familial differences, of a FInno-Anglo mix. I would like to think Love conquers all, but Love in itself is a concept that can be vastly differential in translation between nations. in my case the Old fashioned stuck in the mud British stiff upper lip and no fuss, to the young, deep thinking independent Finnish culture, a mix which turned sour for many reasons, most of which seemed to center upon, our views of marriage, and commitment.

With this is mind, I am an advocate of patience and free thought. If and when the occasion of marriage may raise its complex head, I will attemp (in great British style) to refrain from allowing my feelings to conquer all, and simply enjoy the relationship and see what comes. On such an occasion, at least I should have the experience, of marriage, and of Finnishness, (at the very least a better linguistic grasp of the language), to make a more informed decision, though I will no doubt, to which any intelligent male will ascertain, still be far from a full comprehension of the opposite sex, and indeed that of the Finnish variety!

sammy · Post by **sammy** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:41 am

risto777 wrote:Last week, in NOKIA lunch time, having lunch with other two colleagues, we three foreigners all had married with Finnish woman, now all divored. Why ??? !!!

So... why did you divorce (or did I misinterpret your message)?

IMO it's quite silly to blame a "country" on a failed/ended marriage, you might be better off asking yourself why did you two marry in the first place? In this, I agree with st3v3 - the answer depends on the two persons and their own level of commitment, etc. I also happen to think it's actually too easy to get married!

However... it might be said that, as in all relationships, that which is "exotic, different, special and wonderful" in the beginning when people don those rose-tinted glasses... may turn into "strange, alien and unbearable" once the everyday life sets in with its inevitable moments of day-to-day dreariness, routine, and even feeling fed up with each other at times. Most of us fall in love with an "idea" about the other person. If -and when- it turns out that in reality he/she is both less and more than this ideal, that's when "love" is truly put to the test. Some can weather it, some don't. But everyone will need to face this, including couples from the same country/culture. Maybe, just maybe in multicultural marriages, the 'wedges' that passing of time tests the relationship with can actually be more numerous. But this is just my own kitchen psychology... and about as useful as any generalisation, when it comes to single (no pun intended) cases involving two individuals.

Btw there's some truth to the old joke about a woman marrying a man, then 'moulding' him - and then divorcing him because "he's not the man she used to know anymore". Forget the male/female issue there, that's the pattern we all can succumb into. If you don't accept that adult people change, and are not necessarily the same all the time, then what exactly do you love in the other person - other than your own idealised conception of him/her?

st3v3 · Post by **st3v3** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:11 pm

Sammy, your last part about the idea of marriage and the exoticness, and moulding, are spot on, ladies and gents we need to think things over far more these days, there is much at stake, when a marriage goes pear shaped!

vincebel · Post by **vincebel** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:27 am

Well. From m personal experience experience (so i dont generalise) its mostly the lack of communication, or to be able to communicate without swearing and screaming and finger pointing that ruins the relationship. This in Finland or in any other country in the world. My ex girlfriend was unable to communicate in order to solve a problem, even a basic and stupid one. She was either yelling that im wrong (maybe i was) and that she dont want to talk anymore (wich leads to a bomb ready to explode) OR she was just leaving the house when i wanted peacefully give my opinions. Result, we broke up with a 1 year old baby. This was one year ago. Meanwhile i found a new GF with who its going well and the problems are solved peacefully with clever discussion between grown-ups (a finnish girl so it exists

). Meanwhile my ex had 3 different BF ending in the same way. Yelling, leaving the house and calling me in the middle of the night to know what was wrong with her. If i gave my opinion, back to yelling and ahnging up the phone. Well now we see each other a lot cos we have a half half custody and i try to keep low profile and always agree with her to avoid those yellings again (especially with the kid). Something funny, last week she realised that i was after all a good guy and everything was her fault and she asked me to come back live with her.Wowww. No way. Maybe foreigners males are toys for finnish girls (at least this one) but there is a limit.
Anyway i think she is a nice girl with inner problems (that i can not solve) and she is too proud to accept it.

So why divorce is so high (or break-up)? cos its easier in Finland but it would be the same all over the world if it was easy too.

Also, personal opinion, since the population is growing in the world, the choice is bigger. (that was lame)

Tiwaz · Post by **Tiwaz** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:37 pm

OpenMindedMother wrote:My opinion: it is too easy to get a divorce in Finland. The truth is that all couples in the world have problems, no relationship with too "head" involved is perfect. Many times, problems can be overwhelming, more if they are combined with problems in other external factors like work, children, other family members, etc. So, if someone in Finland feels like marriage is getting too problematic, it is easy and cheap to divorce and go out soon and in an easy way. There is not even one mandatory session with some marriage councellor who could maybe help the couple to see that their problems can be solved. In other countries, getting divorced is so difficult (both parties have to agree, mandatory marriage concelling, reason of divorce has to be clearly stated, etc) that it kind of encourage people to try to find solutions and fight for their marriage. Yes, if things are really not possible to solve, it's better to get divorced and make sepparated happy lives... but this should be the last resource, after all other resources have been tried... that's why marriage is a commitment that requires everyday work from both sides.

Why? Why it should be made more difficult? We are talking about two adult humans FFS!
They have to make decision when they want marital advice or try another time or just split. It is not for society to impose on them some forced attempts of reconciliation which are half arsed at best if they have found marriage not to be worth it.

Easy divorce is the right way to handle this. If you cannot rely on adult, sane person to make his/her decisions regarding their OWN life, it is not worth the bother.

Other countries can stick their excessively difficult divorces where sun does not shine.

For record, my mother was married once in her life. Not to my father though, this was before them. Guy became drunkard.
So by your logic, she should have been forced to go through more counceling and all that !"#¤% because you in your high and mighty mind think it would be too easy to get a divorce?

Though one should remember that this took place decades ago, when it was bit more problematic to get divorce than today. But still, I can imagine the joy and happiness your solution would have brought to life of my mother with alcoholic.

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