Immigrant Integration Schooling (comprehensive school)

[Rosamunda]

The simple answer is Wilma. Wilma is your friend.... as long as the teachers are using it. GIven that many immigrant children have non-Finnish speaking parents it is possible that some of the teachers have opted out of using WIlma but that would be, IMO, a mistake. So I suggest you check if the teachers have posted any annotations (you should have received a log in address - which for us is: husband's first name.husband's last name - and then a bcVjh87Ebf password (which you can change). You'll have a separate account for each child. When you have logged in you should be able to check their attendance (late, absent with consent, absent w/out notification etc) and also.... missed homework. Helsinki and Espoo both have English versions of Wilma but even in Finnish it is not complicated to navigate in there.

Unfortunately not many teachers are updating Wilma with homework that has been set, only the stuff the kids have missed. I find this totally weird and have already emailed in messages such as "I don't need to know this" but on the whole I find the system really good. Test dates are also indicated, but then again, it depends on the teacher.

I have three kids in three different schools. Kulosaari is pretty good at updating WIlma and I log in often (less now in lukio but every day in ylä-aste), but the Espoo school only seems to use it for absences and occasionally for "incomplete homework". The teachers do not seem to use the email facility much (eg for mass-mailing - we still get way too many little bits of paper come home) .

Parents can use Wilma for emailing with the teachers. Which is nice as it keeps all the school correspondance in one place. But on the whole, teachers do not communicate with parents in Finland (and in many ways Wilma is the ultimate barrier to parent/teacher face-to-face communication) and neither do they seem to expect parents to get closely involved in their children's homework. Or their classwork.

As for the grades.... DO NOT get stressed about Finnish language grades. They mean absolutely NOTHING in FFL. Each school seems to grade the kids differently. Kulosaari grades Finnish foreign language on the same scale as Finnish second language (ie for Swedish speakers, where most of the kids are actively bilingual anyway) so I am used to my sons coming home with 4s and 5s even when they are making progress. The problem is when the grades affect their grade point average - the magic number which gets them into lukio. That's a bummer. But I see no way around it. BTW, you may find that contrary to all logic your kids won't get 10s in English. I never figured that one out either.

My kids don't get much Finnish homework and I really don't know why. We have asked and asked and asked for more but it doesn't happen. They don't get home readers, or creative writing. Just the grammar, the grammar, the grammar and oh yes, word lists Their progress has been painfully slow in the 8 years we have been here but we did miss out on the integration programme as we didn't have the information at the time and didn't really assess our situation as well as we could've, should've. Now my SO is travelling less, he gets more involved in their Finnish but it's too little, too late.

It was good to read your post... thanks for giving us some insight. From my own experience I would say that progress depends a lot on personality and how much your kids feel they need to learn it. In our house academic achievement seems to be directly disproportional to the ability to learn Finnish My least academic son speaks by far the best Finnish, possibly because he shuts off all the grammar in class and then goes and hangs out with his mates, skateboarding, trial biking, God only knows what else.... in Finnish He likes to be part of the crowd, look and sound like the others. His older brother is more individualistic, the angry young man with lots of opinions (big reader, big hinterland, lots of hobbies, interests etc) but can't make a coherent sentence in any language (even English) the youngest just plays football and once got a red card for swearing (in Finnish) at the ref (I was sort of proud ).

[DMC]

The simple answer is Wilma.

Can you explain more about Wilma? I get some sense of what it is from your post, but I hadn't heard of it before. What is the scope of the system, both in terms of functionality and location? Does it cover all age groups? All schools? Is it a national system or only in the Helsinki area?

[Rosamunda]

http://www.hel.fi/wps/portal/Opetusvira ... ices/Wilma

I think the functionalities of Wilma are still being ramped up. In theory schools could post all kinds of information about test dates, homework etc on there but some teachers just see it as extra work and won't / can't use it. All schools in Espoo and Helsinki are supposed to use it but I don't think the primary schools bother so much. At least my sons' primary school didn't seem to (or maybe it was just the teacher), I would get a quick phone call if anything came up and I would send an SMS to the teacher's mobile phone if one of my kids was sick or needed to leave school early whatever.

I use it for checking absences (my kids have a 45 min trip to school, so I like to see how often they miss the bus!) and I can also post excuses (dentist, dog ate homework, mum washed homework in machine etc) directly onto my son's account. Some teachers post comments directly onto the daily timetable, so you can see exactly which lesson/day is being referred to. I have also used the mailing function to discuss specific issues with teachers but I try not to abuse this... if every parent started emailing the teachers every day of the week then

Wilma also holds all the students' grades, from each subject and each jakso.

Students use it with their OPO to select their courses (especially in lukio), and I can see my son's jakso timetable right through the academic year (in Helsinki). The Espoo school only seems to have the current jakso posted.

I know Espoo and Helsinki have Wilma and I know of a similar system called HELMI (Kerava? Vihti???) but I don't know what the strategy is nationwide.

[Pursuivant]

The teacher had told me there would *always* be homework *every* day and it is certainly NOT the case since at least 4 days out of 5 the darlings get home saying there is none.

And you believes them? I remember being quite lazy in those classes they taught that way... swedish & german especially. But its a "finnish guy thing" your grammar grades is somewhere on the 7 department... Don't know if its a language teaching thing but all the 10-grade girls never spoke anything and the 6-7 grade guys did all the talking and communicating and could watch German movies without subtitles in business college.

[Rosamunda]

I wouldn't worry too much about the English lessons. You can ask for "independent study" on those courses meaning you basically get the book, do the work at home and take the test at the end of the jakso. My kids have done French and English as independent study in the past but OTOH it is useful to go to lessons for the grammar stuff...

If you email the school secretary, she should be able to give you the Wilma access codes and passwords. Wilma has only existed for a few years, and they are still improving it.

I know what you mean about being labelled as an interfering parent. I usually get my (Finnish) husband to call/email the school, I try to keep in the background. I haven't even been to any school meetings yet this term, he has done them all

[Pursuivant]

Somehow appropritely - now whose innocent darlings are here showing their talents? Malmi vs. Pukinmäki droopypants

[AldenG]

Don't know if its a language teaching thing but all the 10-grade girls never spoke anything and the 6-7 grade guys did all the talking and communicating and could watch German movies without subtitles in business college.

Interesting.

It sounds like a 10 is based on never making mistakes. Sort of like Olympic figure skating, you start with a 10 before you've even tied the laces on your skates and then you get little deductions for everything you do. The "6-7 grade guys" are producing lots of language and communication, some of it formally right, but because they're doing more, they're losing more points for not doing it perfectly. Reminds me of Abraham Lincoln's memorable line: "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt." The thing is, Abraham Lincoln was also shy and self-conscious, even if he didn't go to school in Finland.

The problem is that except for John Stuart Mill (reportedly), nobody emerges from the womb speaking full and perfect sentences in English or any other language.

So if the only way to do well in language instruction in Finnish schools is to answer every question with no mistakes and complete every test with no mistakes, it is no wonder that so many Finns are inhibited about speaking other languages they have studied.

[AldenG]

Ah, I see that Wilma is named after The Flintstones!

[Pursuivant]

So if the only way to do well in language instruction in Finnish schools is to answer every question with no mistakes and complete every test with no mistakes, it is no wonder that so many Finns are inhibited about speaking other languages they have studied.

Thats the "classic" way thats hopefully/reportedly been phased out, but lets say your 30+ group is still a bit traumatized... problem with this method is that the younger you are the more you need to learn the "feel" of the pronunciation. Parrotting phrases without understanding them is one way - you are not learning the language - you are learning how to speak the language - and maybe write the language you hear from dictation... learning content is a different class. So I don't know if they're doing the same mistakes teaching Finnish for foreigners but hopefully not. Too much der die and das killed a lot of guys interest in anything German.

[silk]

So if the only way to do well in language instruction in Finnish schools is to answer every question with no mistakes and complete every test with no mistakes, it is no wonder that so many Finns are inhibited about speaking other languages they have studied.

That was pretty much my experience through the Finnish school system. The emphasis was on grammar and perfection. The teacher was the one who did most of the talking while the students were terrified to open their mouths for the fear of making mistakes. But in my class girls excelled over boys when it came to all aspects of language learning: grammar, writing, speaking... Girls seemed to have easier time with pronunciation and were somewhat more relaxed to speak up.

That quest for perfection was not only true for language learning but for all subjects taught in school. At least that was my experience.

[Rosamunda]

Thats the "classic" way thats hopefully/reportedly been phased out.

Nope, my kids are still marked that way eg in Finnish Foreigh Language. And even in English they lose points because they can't translate from Finnish too well (double whammy)

[AldenG]

In fairness, I should note that whatever combination of techniques Finnish kids use to learn English obviously works better than however the US is teaching languages in schools these days -- or ever in the past, as far as I know.

I suspect that Finns' success probably has a lot more to do with TV and self-teaching than with school instruction. There's a striking generational difference between the ones who learned only in school and the ones who had wide access to VHS and DVD. But again, if you compare the average Finnish ability to communicate in English with the average American's ability to communicate in ANY other language, Finns leave Americans in the dust.

[Jukka Aho]

I suspect that Finns' success probably has a lot more to do with TV and self-teaching than with school instruction. There's a striking generational difference between the ones who learned only in school and the ones who had wide access to VHS and DVD.

Internet, too, these days. Due to chats, instant messaging, and online discussion forums (such as this one) it’s a lot more common for teenagers and young adults to keep in daily touch with people from other countries, and maintain on-going relations with them, than it used to be back in the days when pen pals and letters were your only option... not to mention the wealth of information available online, but not necessarily in your language.

Also, P2P copies of new Hollywood movies which were only just released in the theaters don’t come with subtitles in the local language so if you want to be in the “in” crowd, which has “seen it all” months before it hits the local theaters and for which practically everything pop-culture related is “old news” already, merely knowing how to read in Finnish is not enough any longer. :P

[Rosamunda]

Yes, true about the fluency. But if I put my examiner hat on I might point out that fossilized errors are on the up (astronomical) particularly the misuse of articles and prepositions. And then there's that rising intonation thing (IMO only a marginal improvement on no intonation at all ). And typically, older Finns have a much wider vocabulary (cos they read more and a wider range of stuff) even if sometimes they lack the confidence to use it. And also the fact that many of the younger candidates I interview just don't have much to say, even if they do have the language.

And as for writing skills.... you can be a fairly "fluent" speaker and not know how to write in paragraphs, or construct an essay. The generational difference is also apparent in writing...

I think it's a bluff thing. Younger Finns have more confidence, and their pronunciation is better (even if it does make them sound like they watch too much daytime TV) - but their ability to communicate effectively (eg on subjects outside the box) is no better than their elders, in fact, IMO it is often not even close. The older generation is also incredibly self-critical - I'm often amazed at how ready some of my (older) students are to put themselves down.

So, I'm not completely convinced that the schools are doing such a great job, even though I would probably agree that Finnish kids are better at languages than Americans or Brits (but that's a no-brainer!). Finnish adults (eg the over 35s) are WAY better at languages than Americans or Brits in the same age group.

[Upphew]

Internet, too, these days. Due to chats, instant messaging, and online discussion forums (such as this one) it’s a lot more common for teenagers and young adults to keep in daily touch with people from other countries, and maintain on-going relations with them, than it used to be back in the days when pen pals and letters were your only option...

Well... pen pals were "option" with our English teacher...

Also, P2P copies of new Hollywood movies which were only just released in the theaters don’t come with subtitles in the local language so if you want to be in the “in” crowd, which has “seen it all” months before it hits the local theaters and for which practically everything pop-culture related is “old news” already, merely knowing how to read in Finnish is not enough any longer.

Dunno how the sub scene is nowadays, but "back in the day" there were lots of fansubs, and I think anime is still largely fansubbed? Quality was bad, but sometimes even the pros make awful mistakes: http://www.juhaterho.fi/proverbiaalinen/pora/