Medical facts: baby ear piercing & outside sleeping

[missanh]

I've never heard of babies sleeping outside, let alone in Finnish weather. It seems a bit crazy to me, but I'm also completely intrigued.
As for piercing - why don't you wait until your baby can make up their own mind about it? Especially as the risks seem to outweigh the reasons of why you would want them pierced.

[Idefix]

Doesn't mean anybody is right or wrong, just different.

So you would not consider professional medical based advice as relevant in considering if something is right or wrong to do to a child? Strange imo.

Even stranger, imho, that that scarring issue is not (?) relevant when talking about circumcision.

Is it not? I did not see anything about circumcision here btw, maybe I missed it....

[jazzori]

I've never heard of babies sleeping outside, let alone in Finnish weather. It seems a bit crazy to me, but I'm also completely intrigued.

When I used to babysit a 5 mo baby, I had to put her outside for the noon nap. Even though her mother said it's okay, for the first days i kept checking if everything's fine.. Seemed a bit crazy for me, too, but it looked like it was working because for a while we had to put the baby to sleep inside and the naps weren't so long, neither deep..

Ah, I just noticed I said basically the same thing as EP..

Sleep outside seems to be longer and deeper. Particularly good for cranky cry-babies.

[onkko]

http://www.ijch.fi/issues/672-3/672-3%20Tourula.pdf

Results. Allowing children to sleep outdoors in the winter was considered a common practice
and was taken for granted. It usually began when the child was 2 weeks old, and was carried
out once a day. Children took longer naps outdoors compared with naps taken indoors. Outdoor
temperatures ranged between -27 and +5°C. Parents’ experiences were mainly positive and most
parents had not faced potentially dangerous situations. However, parents reported that the children’s
fingers felt cold in 3% of the children sleeping in 0°C temperatures and in 25% sleeping
in -15°C temperatures. Almost half of the children had sweaty necks at 0°C, but the most frequent
symptoms were red cheeks and cold nose tips.

Conclusions. In addition to this cross-sectional study and the parents’ subjective and mainly positive
experiences, objective measurements and an extensive study about parents’ experiences are
needed before guidelines for allowing children to sleep outdoors in the winter can be updated. (Int
J Circumpolar Health 2008; 67(2-3):269-278)

[AldenG]

In the 1970's I heard in the U.S. that Swedish adults like to sleep under warm blankets but with the windows open or at least ajar in cold weather. I can't remember where. It may have been from a Bob Hope movie set in Sweden or from another source or from multiple sources.

Certainly I was told in Sweden that it's healthier to sleep warmly covered in cold air than to sleep lightly covered in warm air, and thus one should set the thermostat quite low. Of course that's also convenient for saving money and might qualify as making a virtue of necessity. But it wouldn't particularly surprise me if it were true. It sort of feels that way. It might also simply be that the cold air from outside was fresher in older times of fire-heated homes. Even today outdoor air is still cleaner than indoor air unless maybe if you live in a really polluted area.

In the spring and autumn I like to sleep next to the screen window in our sun room when it's brisk outside.

[Idefix]

In the 1970's I heard in the U.S. that Swedish adults like to sleep under warm blankets but with the windows open or at least ajar in cold weather. I can't remember where. It may have been from a Bob Hope movie set in Sweden or from another source or from multiple sources.

Certainly I was told in Sweden that it's healthier to sleep warmly covered in cold air than to sleep lightly covered in warm air, and thus one should set the thermostat quite low.

Maybe because half of Sweden is on welfare/unemployment/sick leave and don't have to get up in the mornings...
I hate to get up and get ready for work in a cold room!

[Tiwaz]

Not necessarily cold, but cool. It is recommended to have lower temperature in bedroom compared to rest of the house.

It tends to be easier for your body to regulate your temperature during sleep to keep itself bit warmer than try to cool it off when there is too hot.

It has never been an issue for me to sleep in bit cold surroundings, but sleep when it is hot, for example during summer, is very difficult.
Remember that only way for your body to cool itself is through perspiration while heating takes place naturally. And in bed, specially if you have something covering you, cooling effects of perspiration are made less efficient.

[OpenMindedMother]

Thank you all for your opinions and facts. Some comments from my side:

1. In summary, the medical reasons of why not to have babies' ears' pierced are: infection, allergy and keloids. I would really like to know if there is some information somewhere about how big the possibility is: does this happen to 1 in every 10 persons or more like to 1 in 5 millions? In any case, I'm guessing that this will happen to a person if she is a baby or an adult, right? So this is not specifically for babies, it is relevant to all ear piercing. On the other hand, there are many other things that we do to our babies as part of our culture that in other cultures is looked as "not safe". Example: vaccinations. Many cultures still find that this can cause side effects (which is medically truth as there are always possibilities to get allergic reactions, paralysis, even dath... search on internet) but we still decide that this is god for our children because there possibility is so small that we do not even think about it. Besides, doctors give the vaccinations, so we trust them. In other countries, ear piercing is done by medical staff, in hospitals, with sterilized equipment, under very controlled environment... so we trust that this is also safe. See what I mean?

2. Someone has mentioned that a girl should have her ears pierced only when she can decide it herself... so I guess this means that girls should only pierced their ears when they are 18 years or older, right? Afterall, there is an age limit (there must be good reasons why the age limit is 18) and before this, parents should take all decisions for their children... or what kind of parent would let a 13 years old decide if she makes holes on her ears or not? If a parent let her do this, why wouldn't you let her have also tatoos or other piercings in her body if she decides to do so at 9 or 13 or 15 years old? And, remember, the risk of infection, allergy, keloids, etc is still there.

3. The sleeping outside issue seems to me more like a personal decision. There are not real medical facts so far... only opinions and a study which was purely based on interviews and subjective opinions of finnish parents but no facts. It obviously can't be so bad as many people do it without side effects. And, by the way, this is another thing that we as parents decide for our children... or should we also decide until they are old enough to decide by themselves?

In any case, I'm still making my decisions. I might put my baby to sleep out if I'm too tired to spend a longer time sleeping her inside... not because it's healthy for her (no evidence yet of this) but because it would make my life easier (isn't this the real reason why to do this?). And, I can say that I would definetely never pierced my baby's ears in Finland as the piercing is done in jewerly shops and it doesn't seem to be so professional or sterilized as it should be. In other countries, I would still consider it (after some months, when the baby has most vaccinations) because, as I mentioned, it is done in hospitals (good hospitals, recognize internationally by their quality), by medical staff (even pediatricians)... which, by the way, doesn't seem like going "against medical advice". To be truth, the thing that would bother me the most are the critics of finnish people as this is not in their culture... but then again, isn't Finland a country where nobody interferes with other's lives? where people are open minded? a first world country where people have learned to accept cultural differences?

[EP]

I might put my baby to sleep out if I'm too tired to spend a longer time sleeping her inside... not because it's healthy for her (no evidence yet of this) but because it would make my life easier (isn't this the real reason why to do this?).

Now where on earth did you get that idea (it would make my life easier)?

It is to give the baby better sleep. That is nowadays. And also because it has always been so. But actually it has not always been so. Two hundred years ago babies died like flies. They were "protected" from fresh air for months. Of course every family did not have that option, peasants had to go out every day, and could not pamper their babies. Then some doctors (Elias Lönnrot included, he lost two of his own babies if I remember right) realized that there was a way higher infant mortality rate in "better circles" than in peasant families who had to take their babies along when they went to work outside. That is when sleeping the babies outside started.

Then in 1920´s and 1930´s came pediatrician Arvo Ylppö and his teachings, one of which was sleeping babies outside also in winter. He developed Finland´s neuvola system, and after his teachings Finland went from one of the darkest infant mortality numbers right to the top. His authority has not been questioned till this day, and that is because of the results he acchieved.

[EP]

Finland went from one of the darkest infant mortality numbers right to the top.

To the top. But on the lighter side.

[Idefix]

1. In summary, the medical reasons of why not to have babies' ears' pierced are: infection, allergy and keloids. I'm guessing that this will happen to a person if she is a baby or an adult, right? So this is not specifically for babies, it is relevant to all ear piercing. On the other hand, there are many other things that we do to our babies as part of our culture that in other cultures is looked as "not safe". Example: vaccinations.

If you read the links that has been provided, you will see that babies do not fight off infections as well as adults do. And generally adults do not try to put earrings in their mouths with risks of choking, etc etc.
To compare piercing with vaccinations is utterly ridicculous, since vaccinations have medical benefits deemed way higher than any rear side effects that can occur. This is not the case for piercing, at all.

[MinttuMaija]

So long as the piercing is done with surgical steel & IS NOT done with a piercing gun you shouldn't have a problem! However I'd say your gonna struggle to find someone to pierce a babys ears as 99% of the piercers I have met don't like to do it at all.

I'm a play piercing model for a living so if you want to know anything specific I should be able to find out for you just drop me a pm

[Xochiquetzal]

My sister in law was a neuvola nurse and she told me that the ambient noises outside are great for putting the child to sleep.

[tunkkari]

in the OP about the link with cot death and cold........in the uk its the other way with them stating a link between a baby being over hot and cot death, however Ive never heard of cot death here and theres no fuss made about how much clothes baby should or should not wear, when I had my son here I was shocked at how much they put on him since the uk they say not to overheat, you use quilts in cots here in the uk thats a no no and you use various layers, Ive personally always just used my own common sense and all 5 of my cherubs have been just fine.

[Upphew]

Regarding the topic: there is quite brouhaha about pierced ears going on: http://www.iltalehti.fi/viihde/200911270102018_vi.shtml and it seems that most readers of IL don't approve little kiddos ear piercings: http://www.iltalehti.fi/viihde/20091126 ... 3_vi.shtml
The children in question was 2,5 weeks old.