Is folic acide needed here for pregnant woman?

[mikkolover]

Tablets contain things that Do harm the fetus, come on Teri, that is bs and you can't spew things without varifying facts. I am holding a box of plain foliohappo, folic acid for anyone, but especially for pregnant woman. All woman trying to conceive or pregnant need a Minimum of 400-1000mg of folic acid to PREVENT spina bifida and other potentially fatal things that can hurt the baby. Not sure how much the finnish prenatal contains but ones from the states and uk have 1000mg, better safe than oh so sorry! You pee out the extra anyway!

[Tiwaz]

I ask again...

If getting these supplements is so critical, why most children in Finland are born A-OK regardless of mother eating pills or not?

Short answer, it is not critical. "Better safe than sorry" just shows you know your diet is crap. How about fixing your diet instead of trying to supplement it with expensive and questionable products?

You could be eating half a kilo of folic acid and STILL some women would give birth to children with neural tube defects.

[ajl]

As a parent of a child with a congenital brain defect/condition that kids with NTDs are also likely to have,
dealing with all the specialists, dealing with lifelong/multiple surgeries, studying neuro medical issues to
insure your child is treated correctly (needed even more so for kids with NTDs)... more than sucks! Unless
you've lived that life, maybe you should not be so diet-religious about this. A small folate supplement or well
fortified foods (less desirable as extra folate for seniors may be counter productive) can reduce NTDs by almost
50%. That is cheap insurance and far more likely to offset the known folate deficiency of most diets. A great
non supplemented diet is harder to achieve; however ideal it is, it doesn't mesh with the reality of what people
eat.

[CH]

If getting these supplements is so critical, why most children in Finland are born A-OK regardless of mother eating pills or not?

Well, you said it yourself... "most", not all. Not having adequate amounts of folate acid during very early stages of pregnancy increases the risk of the child having neural tube defects. It doesn't mean that not eating folate acid will for sure make the child have neural tube defects and it doesn't mean that if you stuff yourself with folate acid the child will not have neural tube defects. So, for instance two out of 1000 children will have neural tube defects if the mother takes folate acid and 5 out of 1000 if she doesn't (the numbers are totally made up, I can dig up the actual numbers if you want to know what they are... there was at least one study where they had the numbers for Finland). You know... probability and all that jazz that you supposedly learned in school.

Anyway, folate acid is a very cheap way of preventing that x amount of children will not get neural tube defect. There are still some that will have it, no matter what the mother ate or didn't eat. But, one should really have eaten that folate acid before one gets pregnant, as the neural tube forms very early in pregnancy. So, if a woman is trying to get pregnant it would be prudent for her to be sure to get enough folate acid, be it from diet or pills.

[Tiwaz]

If getting these supplements is so critical, why most children in Finland are born A-OK regardless of mother eating pills or not?

Well, you said it yourself... "most", not all. Not having adequate amounts of folate acid during very early stages of pregnancy increases the risk of the child having neural tube defects. It doesn't mean that not eating folate acid will for sure make the child have neural tube defects and it doesn't mean that if you stuff yourself with folate acid the child will not have neural tube defects. So, for instance two out of 1000 children will have neural tube defects if the mother takes folate acid and 5 out of 1000 if she doesn't (the numbers are totally made up, I can dig up the actual numbers if you want to know what they are... there was at least one study where they had the numbers for Finland). You know... probability and all that jazz that you supposedly learned in school.

Anyway, folate acid is a very cheap way of preventing that x amount of children will not get neural tube defect. There are still some that will have it, no matter what the mother ate or didn't eat. But, one should really have eaten that folate acid before one gets pregnant, as the neural tube forms very early in pregnancy. So, if a woman is trying to get pregnant it would be prudent for her to be sure to get enough folate acid, be it from diet or pills.

Yes, I would be interested to see reliable results. Not those from drug companies, but more reliable source.

And I want to see difference to be so significant that it cannot fit inside normal statistical variation.

Can you provide that?

[tunkkari]

I am 7 weeks pregnant at the moment and taking folic acid, I eat a good diet and should (and probably do) get enough from that, the reason I am still taking it tho is easy, I would never forgive myself if anything happened to the baby and I could have so cheaply prevented it. Yes the drug companies have done a bit scare tacktics with it and yes it s worked, there isnt many women prepared to take a chance when it comes to their child and they know that, just as well it isnt a bad price.

[mikkolover]

http://kidshealth.org/parent/pregnancy_ ... _acid.html

this just one of MILLIONS of links NOT by medical companies. The truth of the matter is, 'some' cereals are fortified, and most green leafy veggies, but you would have to eat kilos of that a day to get enough in one tiny pill that literally saves lives.

instead of accusing women here of not eating right and looking into their diets, why don't you look at how much of one thing someone HAS to eat to meat the requirements to again, SAVE A BABY'S life.

What are you gaining by being so argumentative here`? Why are you so against folic acid? what has folic acid ever done to you??!

[Amandine.K]

Tiwaz if you don't mind me asking, what is your background? Are you a doctor or a nurse?

[Tiwaz]

Tiwaz if you don't mind me asking, what is your background? Are you a doctor or a nurse?

We could turn the question around, is anyone here preaching for these products doctor or nurse?
Specially one who researches these issues...

You see, I tend to dislike believing anyone on face value when they clearly want to sell something to me. And biggest supporters of this and that "health product" or drug are... Companies who make money by selling them.

They want you to use drug to fix every minor pain or discomfort. Fair and all, but let's think about this little further.
We see for example Mobilat advertisement in TV where this guy tells how they use Mobilat to ease pain in their back or other location so it does not disturb their work.

But pain rarely comes from nothing. Essentially they are using drug to stun their natural pain response without paying attention to what CAUSED the pain. Treating symptoms without fixing the source is not very realistic. But it would ensure that someone who used Mobilat would use it again, because once effects of drug recede, pain is back because main reason behind it was not handled but covered up.

[Amandine.K]

Well yes I am actually a registered nurse. What about you?

[Tiwaz]

Well yes I am actually a registered nurse. What about you?

Now, are you nurse engaged in research on this matter?
I guess so. Then let us make use of this.

Could you give statistics on how many mothers who eat properly get children with this condition?
Could you give statistics on how many mothers who do NOT eat properly get children with this condition?
Could you give statistics on how many mothers who eat properly AND eat supplements get children with this condition?
Could you give statistics on how many mothers who do NOT eat properly AND eat supplements get children with this condition?

How large is the study? IE, how many mothers over how long period and in how large area?
What is the estimated margin of error?

[mikkolover]

Wow, my advice to anyone who has continued reading this far.. do not engaged this idiot, hostile person, Tiwaz in anymore conversation. Obviously this person has a thick head and won't be able to accept anything, even if the data was in front of their face. The point is, ladies do what you will with your bodies, and best to you if you decide NOT to take the folic acid. It's a tiny TINY price to pay for a healthy baby, do your own research and ignore morons!

[Amandine.K]

You still haven't answered my question Tiwaz... Before going on the offensive, please tell us your background...

[biscayne]

Folic acid supplements have been shown to have been of more use in populations which have a large celtic or anglo-celtic population, incidences of spina-bifida and other neural tube defects being generally higher in these populations, up to 4 cases of spina-bifida per 1000 and up to 7 cases of anencephaly (absence of forebrain) in Ireland in the 1970s. It has not been proven, but is likely, that celtic populations have a genetic pre-disposition to neural tube defects, (and the poor Irish/British diet compounded this), and it is extremely interesting from a genetic point of view that use of folic acid supplements has caused the rate of these defects to fall dramatically, while it has not made much difference in the rates of neural tube defects in populations which did not suffer from such high rates historically, with or without supplements, the rates stayed more stable then in the celtic populations.

Regarding Finland, genetically speaking, it is known more for it's inborn errors of metabolism, certain eye and kidney diseases. Even though, historically, the Finnish diet might not have consisted of the amount of green leafy veg. (all year) which would provide for adequate folic acid intake, the rate of neural tube diseases were not as high as in the celtic populations. Fish, especially oily fish, would of course help with FA intake.

The jury is still out as to whether women from non-high risk groups really need to take FA, but the position of the poster who suggested that she would take it as a sort of extra insurance because she would not forgive herself if the baby was born with a neural tube defect and she had not done all she could, is totally understandable.

As I have been blasted on other posts for supposedly giving "advice" in the capacity of a health care professional, when I was actually only "explaining" something, I would like to point out that the above is in no way advice to take, or not to take FA, simply information which is based on the latest information, available in professional journals.

[Tiwaz]

You still haven't answered my question Tiwaz... Before going on the offensive, please tell us your background...

And you have not pointed out what proof you have that folic acid is essential. As for my background. Are you REALLY a nurse?
This is internet. We can all be pretty much what we want here.

Let me simplify the question for you. Issue here for folic acid appears to be twofold.
First, people complain that women do not get recommendation in neuvola to eat more folic acid. And then there is recommendation to eat more folic acid.

I ask you, since you are expert in the field...

If what has been told here by another nurse and neural tube condition takes place very early in the pregnancy, what point there would be for Finnish neuvola to say anything about folic acid since by the time you go to first checkup it is already way too late?

Second, would you see it preferable for woman who wants to be a mother to eat supplements or go through their lifestyle and switch it for more healthy one without need for supplements? Which you as expert would see as better?

If mother truly wants to give their child best possible chances, something I fully encourage and support, they should instead of rushing to pharmacy look at their fridge, cupboards and daily habits and start from there instead of bottle of pills to build better chance for their child to get good start for their life.


Not only does this improve chances of child to grow without any defects due to bad nutritional intake, it would serve to improve quality of life of mother and by having mother used to more healthy lifestyle she would also present to her offspring good example which would help the child to live life with less issues.

This, instead of pills, is what people should pay attention to. It is going to take lots of effort and time, so many see eating pills as more inviting option, but what example you leave to your children then?
Specially considering that in Finland cardiovascular diseases are one of the biggest health threats, which would be nicely dealt with by more balanced diet and increased exercise.