Inheritance Tax query

blitze · Post by **blitze** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:05 am

Hiya, new to the board but been looking at a few topics.

My wife has recently been embroiled in an inheritance of a business left to her via her mom's share of her grand dads Metal Works business. Her mother died when she was young and her Grand Father left no will when he died recently leaving her as part of the inheritance. Her 3 uncles work at the business and they seem to have undermined the value of the business which we are getting verified by a business valuer but the query is - if her uncles who own majority of the business and work the business refuse to buy her out - where does she stand with regards to inheritance tax?

She has minority say, no access to annual profits and assets which she can't turn into cash. Is there something that she can do or some clause in Inheritance Tax that accounts for this type of circumstance where not only is she left with legal fees and accounting fees but she might possibly be lumped with an inheritance tax of 10's of thousands of Euros?

Her lawyer seems to be offering little advice on this matter and it also seems as though her Uncles have been not only trying to black mail her but also devaluing the worth of the business for inheritance/taxation purposes.

Some advice would be greatly appreciated for all we can see as a worst case scenario is us declaring bankruptcy. We are living in Australia ATM but are wanting to move to Finland soon and the last thing we need is this financial inheritance mess hanging over our heads.

**Sponsor:**

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:40 am

So.... is your wife Finnish? Are you? What exactly is the Finnish connection? Is the business in Finland? Why would you be liable for tax in Finland? I don't understand what you are asking.

Renunciation of an inheritance is possible, so is transfer of a share to another beneficiary:

(Chapter 17)
http://www.finlex.fi/en/laki/kaannokset ... 650040.pdf

(note: the translation is unofficial, as always only the Finnish version stands in law.)

blitze · Post by **blitze** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:31 pm

Wife is Finnish and the company is Finnish but we are both living in Australia and wanting to move to Finland.

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:30 pm

Living in Finland or not makes no difference to your wife´s inheritance or her tax liability. Foreigners and Finns residant abroad are treated the same way as other beneficiaries.

Being bought out by the uncles won't change the inheritance or the tax liability either, since that can only take place AFTER the estate has been sorted out.

I think you need a lawyer (in Finland).

blitze · Post by **blitze** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:05 am

We have a lawyer in Olou where the Business is located but she seems ready to roll over to the information being presented by my Wife's Uncles. We have engaged an independent business valuation consultant and he is seeing discrepancies with what the Uncles have submitted and their tax fillings over the last 5 years, this will be submitted to the Divider of the Estate. We understand that there will be tax incurred but it more how do we stand from a legal point with regards to blackmail, extortion, perversion of the course of justice and finally, if the Uncles refuse to buy her out, how can she as a quarter owner of the company have any power to stand up for her interests as a minority owner.

The Uncles are working in the company, they draw wages from it and they also seem to have utilised the company for personal financial transactions. They have also devalued the assets to half of what they have listed in their annual tax fillings. It's a big frustrating S--t fest.

Thanks for your info though.

brengun · Post by **brengun** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:23 am

naw, i,d not roll over for the greedy bastards,, at first, do nothing, i doubt if you can be taxed for nothing coming into your bank(check this with tax authorities), also I know sometimes peasants can be very cunning, (+t). but don,t you have some instinct to give them "one" , if only for honour,for your mother,s memory. good luck, and see it as a game, enjoy.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:26 am

Oh you have to pay taxes first before you can get a title to anything. The tax orifice wants their money and they want to be sure getting it.

tizlit · Post by **tizlit** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:58 am

I inherited a small amount of money from Finland (was then living abroad), and before I got hold of the monies (all the vultures appeared from nowhere to prevent this

) surprise: a paper from tax people arrived demanding me to pay taxes. Prepare for this event, they will not forget you !

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:27 am

blitze wrote:We understand that there will be tax incurred but it more how do we stand from a legal point with regards to blackmail, extortion, perversion of the course of justice and finally, if the Uncles refuse to buy her out, how can she as a quarter owner of the company have any power to stand up for her interests as a minority owner.

There are provisions in the Code of Inheritance that relate to the falsification of the vlaue of the estate. Eg chapter 20 section 11.

Depending on the sums involved it might be worthwhile finding another lawyer, one of the better law firms from Helsinki may have a branch in Oulu. I think one or two have been mentioned on here before.

Regarding her rights as a minority shareholder, you need to obtain a copy of the statutes of the company (I think these can be obtained on-line from the Patents Office if you know the Business ID of the company www.prh.fi) which should make specific references to the voting rights of shareholders and also to the sale of shares etc.

raamv · Post by **raamv** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:34 pm

First of all: Lawyers know each other and many business owners when you pick them from the same city...
So Choose another lawyer from a different place even though this might be of a bigger hassle when it comes to paying fees..
( Pros and cons )
Getting into litigation here especially in terms of inheritance is very costly, time consuming and tedious business ( I know second hand of this with a good friend of ours )..
Getting businesses evaluated is also tricky..But if you find discrepancies, you can use those in a court of law as evidence as long as you can produce it..
So First search for a good lawyer ( I know some in Helsinki, but they are pretty on the highest side as far as fees are concerned )..

blitze · Post by **blitze** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:40 am

Thanks for the replies.

We have the business being independently valued at this point in time and when the results come in we will look at our legal options working with the Estate Divider who seems to be handling the situation competently. Considering that this has been a pretty grisly affair starting last November with my partners Grand Father who she cherished, things are now seemingly starting to move.

Thanks penelope for the English translation of the laws in this area. I hope one day to have my Finnish upto the level I can read the native versions down the track but atm - my Finnish is a combo of simple tourist phrases and swearing. That being said I can now swear competently in 4 languages.

This site is great for people like us who are looking to move to Finland and deal with things Finnish like looking at starting a business and enjoying the beauty that is Finland. Already I have driven thousands of kms throughout Finland and shudder when taking behind the wheel back in Australia as people in my city have no idea how to drive and it is so much less stressful in Finland.

raamv · Post by **raamv** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:03 am

blitze wrote:Already I have driven thousands of kms throughout Finland and shudder when taking behind the wheel back in Australia as people in my city have no idea how to drive and it is so much less stressful in Finland.

I guess you have not seen the driving here during this time of the year...

AldenG · Post by **AldenG** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:43 am

I see a huge difference in the driving from 20 years ago. I wonder how much the roadside cameras have to do with it.

I used to marvel at how many men, instead of driving in the right lane except to pass slower traffic, seemed to spend all their time driving in the left lane except to pass ONCOMING traffic. And by left lane, I do mean the wrong side of the road.

blitze · Post by **blitze** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:47 am

raamv wrote:
blitze wrote:Already I have driven thousands of kms throughout Finland and shudder when taking behind the wheel back in Australia as people in my city have no idea how to drive and it is so much less stressful in Finland.
I guess you have not seen the driving here during this time of the year...

True, true. I've only driven in Finland in the Summer and and at Christmas. Winter seemed easier but maybe people don't drink as much and drive compared to Summer.

I hear Autumn time is great as many people get caught out with not having Winter Tyres on when the mercury gets below Zero. Adds to the mayhem but hey, try driving in Melbourne and then you'll know scary road chaos. People can't merge onto Freeways, drive corners and where 2 freeways merge into 1 you have muppets slowing down to 20kph and then speeding up again so the speed is greatly variable. Speed Cameras and Gov revenue raising is the cause of this as all the cameras are on safe multi lane freeways not like in Finland at Cross Intersections on narrow highways. In Aust - they like to give licenses to any one they can with no training beyond navigating a car park.

Cameras for safety at intersections = yes but not where they are guaranteed to generate the most revenue like here.

On the Inheritance Front, we heard that the Uncles are fragmenting and wanting to now sell the business. Keeping our head to the ground and making sure my wife's interests are looked after. She's handling things well but it seems we have to tell the lawyer her job. The next meeting of parties involved will be the cruncher.

The tax office has already assessed the Tax on the estate but we were informed that we can apply in writing for an extension of time for payment. This we'll be taking up as if the estate/business goes to sale then who knows when we'll see anything from it. Fun, fun.

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:44 pm

blitze wrote: try driving in Melbourne and then you'll know scary road chaos....

...and you have that weird thing where you have to pull over to the right in order to turn left, wait until every one has overtaken you and then cross over two lanes

Or something like that. I remember being a bit confused, (my godmother lives in Seymour, I visited her, a long time ago though)

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