how much damages can I get for harassment, health loss

kick100 · Post by **kick100** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:31 pm

Now in the fight mode with my company. How much can I claim as damages from my company?
They have been harassing me and trying to get rid of me despite good performance because I started asking them questions for my overtime and holidays which they have not given me.

Overtime is worth several thousand euros, adquate holidays not given for several years.

Been harassed by overwork, HR also gave incorrect numbers for my overtime and holiday claims.

Company tried to put me off work so that they could fire me off work when I have proof that work for me was indeed present.

It has seriously affected my health in the last 5-6 months with insomnia and personal life problems creeping in.

Joined a union in this month.

Have got all proofs necessary against the company. Company seems to be doing illegal things.

If my existing salary is X euros per year. How much damages can I claim?
Is there information on how much damages have been awarded in earlier precedents in Finland (tried googling but my lack of knowledge of Finnish does not help)

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rinso · Post by **rinso** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:36 pm

kick100 wrote: How much damages can I claim?

How much damage do you really have?
If they pay you the correct overtime and so, it will be difficult to claim damages you don't have.

kick100 · Post by **kick100** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:39 pm

rinso wrote:
kick100 wrote: How much damages can I claim?
How much damage do you really have?
If they pay you the correct overtime and so, it will be difficult to claim damages you don't have.

My actual claims are around 60-70 thousand euros.

How much should I ask for mental harassment? How to go about it.

Of course I want to ask damages/sue them for between 500-1200 thousand euros. I do not know if that is feasible or OK?

sinikettu · Post by **sinikettu** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:45 pm

kick100 wrote: Joined a union in this month.

This forum is unlikey to be able to help you.
You need expert legal advice from someone who "realy" knows Finnish Employment laws.
e.g: A Trade Union has a legal department to provide exactly what you need.

THAILAND · Post by **THAILAND** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:20 pm

Stand up for your rights...
Claim for what you really suffer.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:51 pm

kick100 wrote: Of course I want to ask damages/sue them for between 500-1200 thousand euros. I do not know if that is feasible or OK?

Well this ain't America, so you can sue for what is legal... what I think you might well have is a "discrimination" case as in työsyrjintä, but the thing is as people said you need to have someone versed in the employment law - the union in your case who have negotiated the terms and conditions originally.

Mook · Post by **Mook** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:18 pm

kick100 wrote:My actual claims are around 60-70 thousand euros.

your salary seems to be quite generous. Unfortunately, people with large salaries tend not to be paid for overtime unless it's specifically agreed. Same goes for geting paid for untaken holiday (or for carrying it over to the next year)

One last thing, HR departments are always inflexible. It'll be easier to reach an agreement with your boss.

kick100 · Post by **kick100** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:47 pm

your salary seems to be quite generous. Unfortunately, people with large salaries tend not to be paid for overtime unless it's specifically agreed. Same goes for geting paid for untaken holiday (or for carrying it over to the next year)

One last thing, HR departments are always inflexible. It'll be easier to reach an agreement with your boss.

Thanks for the comments. Please keep the suggestions coming. It helps a lot.

Well the salary is not generous. The overtimes are huge and the holidays have accumulated over several years. So the holiday and holiday bonus have become a huge component along with the interest added. So if I do not take holiday now and quit the company they have to pay for not only the holiday and holiday bonus but also for the holiday (which I have not taken).

So if the holidy bonus is 0.3 times the salary. Then the due now to me since I have not taken the holiday itself is = (1.3 + 1) *(salary per day * holidays that I have not taken) = 2.3*(salary per day * number of holidays that I have not taken)

Since my salary is decent and the number of holidays that I have not taken is huge the figure turns out big.

Because I was not given holidays, it created sleep disorder and personal life problems and other health problems.

Besides there are other mental harassments that kept going on.

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:56 pm

kick100 wrote: My actual claims are around 60-70 thousand euros.

I suppose this is what you can prove based on contracts and so on.

Of course I want to ask damages/sue them for between 500-1200 thousand euros.

If that is for the "mental part, I think you're in for a big disappointment.
In Finland suing for hurt feelings is seldom allocated by a court. And if a court agrees on mental damages, it will be a very moderate sum.

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:36 pm

Regarding holiday bonus... I don't know what collective agreement you use, but for example Association of information sector employees' collective agreement states: "3. The precondition for receiving a holiday bonus is that the employee begin his/her holiday at the notified or agreed time." - http://www.tietoala.fi/english/english/
So there is possibility, that you can say bye bye to that money.

sinikettu · Post by **sinikettu** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:01 pm

Pursuivant wrote: but the thing is as people said you need to have someone versed in the employment law - the union in your case who have negotiated the terms and conditions originally.

The simple fact is that you are going to get the square root of FA unless you do as advised.

kick100 · Post by **kick100** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:18 pm

Boarders, once again thnx for valuable info...

The point is that I was ignorant about the rules (so the collective agreement clause for holiday bonus should not apply i.e. I should still get it). The employer continued to take advantage and there were indirect threats, non fulfillment of holiday requests, overwork.... I have written records for many of these.

There are other violations on the part of the company some of which relate to tax evasion and other financial fudging .... The company appears to be scared too... However I am not sure what I should do about it...

Of course I will talk with the union but they may not fight my legal case since I am a new joinee. They would only advise though but I do want to get compensation for the harassment/discrimination not only for the money but also for proving my point and getting some mental satisfaction.

Keep the advise coming... its invaluable for me at this point.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:36 pm

kick100 wrote: and the holidays have accumulated over several years.

Ah, no they haven't necessarily. Either you take your holiday or you can save the days but then... ummm... I think they grudgingly pay the unkept days or you forfeit them. So whatever it says in the union contract of holidays as its only in some weird ancient government contracts I've ever encountered that you could save them up. Its like having a car trip meter - once it zeroes you're done.

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:51 pm

There are other violations on the part of the company some of which relate to tax evasion and other financial fudging .... The company appears to be scared too... However I am not sure what I should do about it...

That can bite you in the ass.
If they compensate you for your overtime/holidays but if they haven't payed tax/social security over it, the tax office might be knocking on your door.
(they will anyhow to get their "normal" share)

AldenG · Post by **AldenG** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:12 pm

Even if you don't personally receive extra compensation for harassment or whatever, hopefully the company can be shut down or severely fined for breaking the law. They seem to realize that, since you see signs they're scared. For that reason I suspect that if they COULD pay what they owe, they probably would. They're probably looking at bankruptcy if they have to pay all employees what they're actually owed. For me, that wouldn't be good enough. I think the people responsible should also get some kind of ban so that they can't immediately start a new company and perpetuate the old business model. I don't know if directors in Finland go to jail for this kind of cheating, but I think they ought to.

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