Right is right and sod the left

[Tiwaz]

If brakes are primary, why their performance is wholly dependent on tire performance?

You see, you like some other forget what is the only part of car exerting any force on surface.

As I pointed out, when tires lose traction brakes are 100% useless pieces of metal. This can be experienced if you go visit training areas used for practicing driving on slippery conditions.

Actually, brakes can be hazard since they try to lock the tires in place, to force tires to have instead of smaller rolling friction the far greater sliding friction which easily causes the tires to lose grip completely. This is why you hit clutch when your tail loses grip, do NOT press brakes and try to straighten the car.

You HAVE been to those courses I hope?

Without tires gripping, brakes are not providing anything. Something everyone should remember.

[AldenG]

While you're at it, boys, how does the stopping ability of a car on Hakkapeliitta 4 or 5 tires compare to the stopping ability of a comparable cow (on hooves).

Hint: to arrive at a mathematically correct answer we must first assume a spherical cow...

[EP]

While you're at it, boys, how does the stopping ability of a car on Hakkapeliitta 4 or 5 tires compare to the stopping ability of a comparable cow (on hooves).

Those were tested with few others in Helsingin Sanomat some 2-3 weeks ago. I just don´t remember the results.

[Pursuivant]

it only takes a few busses to come at the same time and no one moves!!!!!

not to mention the arses who block the intersection

[tuulen]

If brakes are primary, why their performance is wholly dependent on tire performance?...

If a tire has no friction, then a car cannot even begin to move, at all, meaning that there is no need for brakes!

[Mook]

While you're at it, boys, how does the stopping ability of a car on Hakkapeliitta 4 or 5 tires compare to the stopping ability of a comparable cow (on hooves).

Hint: to arrive at a mathematically correct answer we must first assume a spherical cow...

My cows all have Hakapeli 3.5 hooves
(don't ask about the missus)

[brengun]

While you're at it, boys, how does the stopping ability of a car on Hakkapeliitta 4 or 5 tires compare to the stopping ability of a comparable cow (on hooves).

Hint: to arrive at a mathematically correct answer we must first assume a spherical cow...

My cows all have Hakapeli 3.5 hooves
(don't ask about the missus)

. don,t tell me,,, she got a mini with killer wheels., I mean heels, dead sexy though.

[Tiwaz]

If brakes are primary, why their performance is wholly dependent on tire performance?...

If a tire has no friction, then a car cannot even begin to move, at all, meaning that there is no need for brakes!

Precisely. So which is more primary to mobility of car? Brakes or tires? Answer, tires. Because without tire functionality being good, everything else in car is irrelevant!

As for friction.
Read up on things like ice, aquaplane, mud and snow.
Those are things which suddenly make your tires lose traction regardless of your brakes.
So where is primary friction stopping the car then? Because in such conditions brakes have not lost any performance.
Perhaps you should reconsider your "primary friction" now.

No offense, but you are trying to put your horse behind your carriage. Brakes are irrelevant to stopping, unless they are totally busted. Because brakes never ever excert ANY force to ANY surface outsider car.

Yes, if you have totally broken brakes they will not do a thing, but broken cars generally do not work as they are supposed.
It is common misconception that people think that you need good brakes to have good stopping distance etc. That is false. As long as brakes lock the wheels, their performance is irrelevant. Or in ABS as long as they lock the wheels on correct intervals.

Tires are only part of car which excerts any force to surroundings in great enough amount to have any importance to movement of car.
Thus, tires are absolutely primary attribute of car.

[AldenG]

As long as brakes lock the wheels, their performance is irrelevant.

What about when they are radically imbalanced? Do they then affect control in hard stops?

By balance/imbalance, I don't mean wheels' rotational balance. I mean brakes grabbing equally on both sides and in the proper relationship of front-to-back. What is the proper relationship, anwyay -- 20/80?

Don't you worry about brake fade during the braking operation? The closer you get to the car in front of you, the more inconvenient it becomes to lift your foot for an instant to grab some more traction -- and I use "inconvenient in lieu of swear words.

Thus, tires are absolutely primary attribute of car.

My tires are good and my tires are important. But I reserve the honor of "primary attribute" for myself. Nothing else has a greater effect on the performance of my automobile when I am driving it.

[Tiwaz]

What about when they are radically imbalanced? Do they then affect control in hard stops?

Read point about car being in proper maintained condition. Just as well we could ask if brake fluids were out or pedal having being chopped off.

My tires are good and my tires are important. But I reserve the honor of "primary attribute" for myself. Nothing else has a greater effect on the performance of my automobile when I am driving it.

Good point, one which I agree with. Though I do not consider myself as part of the car and here I was under impression the issue was about parts of car.

Anyway, this is going offtopic, but I am wary of people putting priorities off due to misunderstood principles of functions of car, so I thought it necessary to correct slight misunderstanding on what is primary attribute of car (as in car alone without consideration of driver) in stopping.