Requirements to work with children

Cloudberry · Post by **Cloudberry** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:59 pm

I'm just wondering what requirements there are to work as an English Teacher with children. Where I live you need to have a special Working with children "blue card" which identifies you as a suitably approved person to work with children. Is there such a requirement in Finland? If working in a school do you also need to have any health checks or anything beforehand? or, if there are requirements does the employer pay for and organise these things?

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onkko · Post by **onkko** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:12 pm

If you work with kids you need to show your criminal record, you get that from oikeusrekisterikeskus.

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokset ... 020504.pdf

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:57 pm

If you want to teach, then you need teaching qualifications (ie a Masters degree in Primary Education). If you want to work in daycare then you probably need nursery nurse qualifications and possibly also the hygiene pass. But like everything else, they are not always pre-requisites for the job but they increase the chances of actually being offered a job. And, more importantly maybe, they mean you get better pay.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:43 pm

I'm just wondering what requirments there are to work as an English Teacher with children.

Masters degree in English philology with a minor in pedagogics. As if in you want an "office" - they hire unqualified too on a lower salary.

Where I live you need to have a special Working with children "blue card" which identifies you as a suitably approved person to work with children. Is there such a requirement in Finland?

Yep, you need a draft of criminal records which should be empty. Might also be useful to bring the "blue card" as the draft obviously covers Finland.

Cloudberry wrote:if there are requirements does the employer pay for and organise these things?

You want a job, they choose and pick off a weekly ryanair flight of "engrish teechers off grammer and splednning". Go figure.

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:06 pm

And a Masters in Education is free in Finland so, no, they won't pay for it.

As far as I remember there was no charge for the Finnish criminal record extract, it was an on-line application, so all you need is your KELA ID number. I think I also got an extract from Nantes (the French criminal record bureau) and I probably had to pay an admin fee for that (or maybe just the stamp) but no, the employer (in my case the city) did not pay for it.

I met an English teacher this morning who also posts on here from time to time and she confirmed that the cut backs this academic year have been really drastic. I think she said over 100 kids in Espoo had been denied English mother-tongue lessons (ie the ex-pat / returning Finn programme). She is now the only English MT teacher in Espoo on that programme. There were 3 of us in 2002 when I was doing it.

Cloudberry · Post by **Cloudberry** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:30 am

Pursuivant wrote:
I'm just wondering what requirments there are to work as an English Teacher with children.
Masters degree in English philology with a minor in pedagogics. As if in you want an "office" - they hire unqualified too on a lower salary.

Where I live you need to have a special Working with children "blue card" which identifies you as a suitably approved person to work with children. Is there such a requirement in Finland?
Yep, you need a draft of criminal records which should be empty. Might also be useful to bring the "blue card" as the draft obviously covers Finland.

Cloudberry wrote:if there are requirements does the employer pay for and organise these things?
You want a job, they choose and pick off a weekly ryanair flight of "engrish teechers off grammer and splednning". Go figure.

So will I also need to apply for a full criminal records check from here before I leave? Maybe they won't recognise the "blue card" I have? I probably won't get the certificate straight away if I apply for the check this week but at least I can get it posted to me in Finland in a month or so when it arrives. I think it costs a few hundred dollars these days too

I would have arranged all of this beforehand but I had no real intention of working with children in Finland with my TESOL qualifications, I thought I would be working with adults!

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:24 am

If you have found a job/employer already, then just scan the documents you've got and ask them if they are acceptable.
Usually it is not necessary to have documents that are in English officially translated, so you don't need to fork out cash for that. I would guess that if your blue card states specifically that you have been vetted as apt to work with kids then that is probably enough. I don't think I know any Australians working in childcare or teaching who I could ask, but there MUST be one or two on here who'd know.

However, if you are applying to have professional or academic qualifications recognised officially then there is a formal process for doing this, and it is not cheap (the links should be on here somewhere, maybe sammy would know more).

lou_12 · Post by **lou_12** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:17 pm

Okay so there's a lot of imformation on here so I'll add my exerience in as it's ALOT more simpler.

Basically, I'm a qualified nursery nurse from England, I moved over here and all I needed to provide was a criminal record background check, I used the form from this link... http://www.suomi.fi/suomifi/english/ese ... index.html I sent it off and less than two weeks later it came back all done.

On that form there is a box to put in your nationality so they check with your home country as well to make sure you're not espacing from charges and trying to get at more children etc... I had no need to provide my background checks from England only the one from Finland.

As far as qualifications, my qualification is valid in Finland but they don't see it as 'proper qualification' (it's enough for my company though) so you may need to do further study or strike lucky like me and find a company/school that like foreign qualifications and see's them as qualifications even though they weren't obtained in Finland.

If you have any other questions, I may be able to help so don't hesitate to send me a message. I found the whole process extremely simple which is hard to find in Finland considering it deals with paperwork...

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:59 pm

I think Cloudberry wants to teach English to schoolchildren though (not daycare) but, yes the checks are probably the same. I'm not sure where/why I needed to get my criminal records from France but I remember doing it; that was a few years ago so it might've changed since. And I was working for Espoo municipality at the time. And also, I think Cloudberry might be non-EU (not sure) so it might be different for her.

Re the qualifications... it's all about money. Sure, some employers will give you a job, but you won't be paid the same as the locals who have the standard qualifications. What do you mean when you say "they don't see it as a proper qualification"? Why not? Did you try to get it recognised? If you did the training in the UK and have the diplomas it might be worth getting them recognised here.

There is an EU programme (The Copenhagen Process) for the standardization of vocational qualification frameworks. I don't know if it works in practice, but it should be possible for EU citizens to take their professional qualifications from one country to another and have them accepted. One day....

lou_12 · Post by **lou_12** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:16 pm

What do you mean when you say "they don't see it as a proper qualification"? Why not? Did you try to get it recognised? If you did the training in the UK and have the diplomas it might be worth getting them recognised here.

I meant, they (at least the Espoo council) don't recognise it as a 'really good' qualification, basically I think because it's not Finnish. Take for example there is somebody at my work who has a teaching degree from a state university in America who is 'not as qualified' as somebody who did the 'practical nurse' course from Omnia. So because my qualification wasn't obtained in Finland they feel it's less, or not as good maybe I don't really know the criteria of a good degree...

I was about to get my qualification recognised in Finland, I rang the board of education in Finland and a lady said I would have to do further study to get it to a Finnish recognised standard, I think it was lastenhoitaja. But then I found a job which used the English system in their daycare so my qualification was more than valid within that comapny but Espoo town council still don't think i'm qualified enough.

onkko · Post by **onkko** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:18 pm

lou_12 wrote: I meant, they (at least the Espoo council) don't recognise it as a 'really good' qualification, basically I think because it's not Finnish. Take for example there is somebody at my work who has a teaching degree from a state university in America who is 'not as qualified' as somebody who did the 'practical nurse' course from Omnia. So because my qualification wasn't obtained in Finland they feel it's less, or not as good maybe I don't really know the criteria of a good degree...

I was about to get my qualification recognised in Finland, I rang the board of education in Finland and a lady said I would have to do further study to get it to a Finnish recognised standard, I think it was lastenhoitaja. But then I found a job which used the English system in their daycare so my qualification was more than valid within that comapny but Espoo town council still don't think i'm qualified enough.

You forget that its not only what they think, its in law that for x amount of childrens there has to be y amount of officially educated people. To be officially educated you need papers. You can hire few non qualified but there is limit and if you go over limit youre in deep sht and council kicks you out.
Thats a law to make sure kids get best possible care.

Cloudberry · Post by **Cloudberry** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:07 pm

penelope wrote:I think Cloudberry wants to teach English to schoolchildren though (not daycare) but, yes the checks are probably the same. I'm not sure where/why I needed to get my criminal records from France but I remember doing it; that was a few years ago so it might've changed since. And I was working for Espoo municipality at the time. And also, I think Cloudberry might be non-EU (not sure) so it might be different for her.

Re the qualifications... it's all about money. Sure, some employers will give you a job, but you won't be paid the same as the locals who have the standard qualifications. What do you mean when you say "they don't see it as a proper qualification"? Why not? Did you try to get it recognised? If you did the training in the UK and have the diplomas it might be worth getting them recognised here.

There is an EU programme (The Copenhagen Process) for the standardization of vocational qualification frameworks. I don't know if it works in practice, but it should be possible for EU citizens to take their professional qualifications from one country to another and have them accepted. One day....

The position is in daycare. As far as I'm aware my current qualifications will be sufficient but I think I'll get them recognised here anyway. Where do you go to do that? I've bought my working with children clearance card with me and I suppose if that's not sufficient they'll request a more comprehensive background check. I am an EU/Finnish citizen although I've only just moved here. I can't believe after researching so much for the past two years there is still so much I need to know!

onkko · Post by **onkko** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:29 pm

"Problem" with daycare is thats under law about childcare what says there has to be formally qualified people.
http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokset ... 050272.pdf
http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokset ... 020504.pdf
Actual law isnt yet translated. http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1973/19730239 http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1973/19730036

6 § (21.8.1992/806)

Päiväkodissa tulee hoito- ja kasvatustehtävissä olla vähintään yksi henkilö, jolla on sosiaalihuollon ammatillisen henkilöstön kelpoisuusehdoista annetun asetuksen (804/92) 4 tai 5 §:ssä säädetty ammatillinen kelpoisuus, enintään seitsemää kokopäivähoidossa olevaa kolme vuotta täyttänyttä lasta kohden. Enintään neljää alle kolmivuotiasta lasta kohden tulee päiväkodissa hoito- ja kasvatustehtävissä samoin olla vähintään yksi henkilö, jolla on edellä säädetty ammatillinen kelpoisuus.

Päiväkodissa tulee hoito- ja kasvatustehtävissä olla vähintään yksi henkilö, jolla on 1 momentissa mainittu ammatillinen kelpoisuus enintään 13 osapäivähoidossa olevaa kolme vuotta täyttänyttä lasta kohden.

Jos päiväkodissa on yksi tai useampia erityisen hoidon ja kasvatuksen tarpeessa olevia lapsia, on tämä otettava huomioon hoidettavien lasten lukumäärässä tai hoito- ja kasvatustehtävään osallistuvien henkilöitten lukumäärässä, jollei päiväkodissa ole tällaista lasta varten erityistä avustajaa.

Päiväkodissa tulee vähintään joka kolmannella hoito- ja kasvatustehtävissä toimivalla olla sosiaalihuollon ammatillisen henkilöstön kelpoisuusehdoista annetun asetuksen 4 §:ssä säädetty ammatillinen kelpoisuus ja muilla hoito- ja kasvatustehtävissä toimivilla 5 §:ssä säädetty ammatillinen kelpoisuus.

Kunta voi poiketa 1 ja 2 momentissa säädetystä suhdeluvusta, jos lasten keskimääräiset hoitopäivät ovat jatkuvasti huomattavasti vähäisemmät kuin toimintapäivät. Poikkeaminen voi tapahtua siten, ettei lapsia ole muutoin kuin lyhytaikaisesti yhtäaikaisesti hoidossa enempää kuin kokonaissuhdeluku edellyttää. (21.12.2006/1345)

Lisäksi 1 ja 2 momentissa säädetystä suhdeluvusta voidaan poiketa tilapäisesti ja lyhytaikaisesti laajennettaessa lapsen hoitoaikaa edellä 2 §:n 3 momentissa tarkoitetulla tavalla. (19.6.2008/442)

So there has to be someone with formal qualifications and depending of age of childs its 1 for 7 over 3 y old or 1 for 4 under 3 y old. Also atleast 1/3 of employees has to have formal qualifications.
So you can be hired IF there is already enough qualified persons, getting that qualification wouldnt hurt but i have no idea where to get one. Try asking http://www.infopankki.fi/ if they know.

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