Finnish. Hard to learn, or learn hard

AkQ · Post by **AkQ** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:33 am

Hi everyone, im finnish guy, age of 21 (and half, lol) and im not too good in english (laziness, really!)

Anyway, i found this forum about 30min ago, drinking and playing DoTA alone and stuff (normal finnish thingy)

At first i laughed to this one topic viewtopic.php?t=12120 (sorry btw that im making new topic.. )
its about, is Finnish the hardest language. Well, in our university this professor dude, who really studies languages, and knows like everything about everything, keeps this lesson about worlds languages.

Long story short. Conclusion is that finnish is second hardest language to learn for native English speakers, in a whole wide world (excluding all dead languages which have no native speakers). Only Polish is harder than Finnish. Why is that? Well, the grammar of Polish has more exceptions and rules, and the pronunciation is pure crazyness. Almost nothing in common with the word in paper.

Estonia and Hungary are almost, or completely as hard as Finnish, to learn. I prefer ofc "almost", since im finnish ^^ its cool to handle *so* hard language.
Well, of course, this is fact only for native English speakers, and simialiar language family. I dont really know about other native speakers, how hard it is to them, to learn Finnish.

Really funny little detail was, that children born in English, have to study three(3) years to write and read English properly. In Finnish, it takes only one year. This fact was also found in topic i linked

Another funny little detail: average age of children, who can speak and write fluent English, was 12. Polish, 16. Finnish ... 10

I dont know if you did, but... what makes finnish so hard to learn, is that there is huge amount of cases, and for that, we have looooong words..
For example
"Lentokonesuihkuturbiinimoottoriapumekaanikkoaliupseerioppilas" can be cut for several words
lentokone = airplane (this can be also cut in english "air" and "plane"

suihku = jet
turbiini = turbine
moottori = engine
apu = assistant
mekaanikko = mechanic
aliupseeri = non-commisioned officer (can be cut, but idk how to translate xD)
oppilas = student

sooo .. well, its almost 1:1 to english translation if you pick the words from those. That compound word has been in use.
Well afterall its quite easy to make up long compoun words.. but what about one, single word.. ;D here comes the cases!!
"epäjärjestelmällistyttämättömyydelläänsäkäänköhän" now that one cant be cut. its one word only (and has made to the guiness book for being one of the longest words in world)
Im very sorry that i dunno know how to translate that one. Most of the Finnish people wouldnt know what that even means, maybe in few moments, but i couldnt read more than 10 letters and i was completely confused. Second try and i got it right! Roughly has one word "anti-system" in the very beginning (epä = anti, järjestelmä = system) rest of the word is made from cases and.. uh.. i dont know what that is

im pretty sure that no-one uses it, since no-one really understands its meaning without thinking few mins.

I dont know what my point was. I forgot it. Damn alcohol

But im gona post this anyway. Im gona track this topic, if any questions raises, so i can answer them. Im sure there are some other finnish people in here if i forget this forum during sleep.

**Sponsor:**

MagicJ · Post by **MagicJ** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:44 am

Great first post

Cazz · Post by **Cazz** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:06 pm

Nice post, def got me thinking

AldenG · Post by **AldenG** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:57 pm

When the morning fluff TV show Good Morning America was in Helsinki, one of the things they commented on was how long all the words in Finnish are. The example they used was kuulakärkikynä, kuula=ball/marble + kärki=point + kynä=pen. At 14 characters, that's way too many characters for such a small object. Just look how economically English accomplishes the same thing:

Code: Select all

kuulakärkikynä
ball-point pen

AldenG · Post by **AldenG** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:08 pm

epäjärjestelmällistyttämättömyydelläänsäkäänköhän

In its conciseness and semi+impenetrability, this word rivals old-school C programming by the long-bearded reclusive Unix geeks of olden times. Back when if anyone else but another long-bearded reclusive Unix geek understood your code, you weren't trying hard enough.

More or less, it can be translated as, "Not even by his own lack of disorganization, do you suppose?" Or "Nor by his own etc."

Better suggestions are welcome...

Then again, maybe I've missed something because I can't explain the "t" immediately after mällis...

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:15 pm

its an 's

kalmisto · Post by **kalmisto** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:07 pm

>> When the morning fluff TV show Good Morning America was in Helsinki, one of the things they commented on was how long all the words in Finnish are. <<

isä = father
äiti = mother
veli = brother
sisko = sister
perhe = family
koti = home
talo = house
piha = yard
aita = fence
puu = tree
yö = night
työ = work
käsi = hand
pää = head
luu = bone
voi = butter

All Finnish words are not long !

The word "epäjärjestelmällistyttämättömyydelläänsäkäänköhän" is never used.

onkko · Post by **onkko** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:09 pm

kalmisto wrote:>> When the morning fluff TV show Good Morning America was in Helsinki, one of the things they commented on was how long all the words in Finnish are. <<

yö = night
työ = work
käsi = hand

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:48 pm

sinikala · Post by **sinikala** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:29 pm

AkQ wrote:Long story short. Conclusion is that finnish is second hardest language to learn for native English speakers, in a whole wide world (excluding all dead languages which have no native speakers). Only Polish is harder than Finnish.

As a native English speaker, I'd say that's utter bollocks.

At school I studied French (5 years) & German (4 years) and although I've never had lessons, I can say a few sentences in Spanish and Italian, perhaps equivalent to doing a year of each at school.. mainly they were picked up as they are so close to French. They are all easier to pick up than Finnish.

I've also attempted Greek, Gujarati and Mandarin with almost no success - they are orders of magnitude harder to learn than Finnish. They don't even have a common alphabet with English.

Finnish might be one of the hardest in Europe ... though I'd still say Greek is miles harder than Finnish.... but in the world? Not even close.

sammy · Post by **sammy** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:10 pm

sinikala wrote:
AkQ wrote:Long story short. Conclusion is that finnish is second hardest language to learn for native English speakers, in a whole wide world (excluding all dead languages which have no native speakers). Only Polish is harder than Finnish.
As a native English speaker, I'd say that's utter bollocks.

From a native Finnish-speaker's point of view, the OP's suggestion is kind of b*llocks too. How does one define "hard to learn"? And: Finnish is hard... for whom exactly? Learning any foreign language properly is likely to be difficult, if your mother tongue is far removed from the target language linguistically (not to mention the different writing systems). And let's not forget that people have different language skills. Some can absorb various different languages almost as through osmosis, whereas others need to struggle even with a few.

Consider that Finnish is probably a piece of cake for Estonians. Polish may not be that difficult if you speak some other Slavic language. And (say) French could probably be classified as easy, if you know Spanish or Italian to start with. But for someone coming from e.g. a Far Eastern linguistic background, all of those Romance languages can be a complete nightmare... and yet, for some Asians they probably come easy.

Yes, Finnish is tricky what with the 15 cases and bla bla bla, but other languages also have their tricky bits! The only reason why Finnish can rightly be -from an European perspective that is- perceived as "one of the more difficult languages in Europe" has nothing much at all to do with the structures of the language per se (I've always wanted to use that expression since it's vaguely rude) but simply because most other European languages belong to other language groups.

There are simply put too many gaping logical holes in the proposition "Finnish is the hardest language in the world" to make it in any way an objective statement.

And why should it even matter, really...

sp.sparsh · Post by **sp.sparsh** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:21 pm

Hi all

I just filled out an application for the free finnish lang course conducted by Adulta. They conduct a test before choosing the candidates. could anyone tell me what kind of test it is and if it requires any sort of preparation before hand to pass this test ?

mrjimsfc · Post by **mrjimsfc** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:19 pm

sammy wrote: has nothing much at all to do with the structures of the language per se (I've always wanted to use that expression since it's vaguely rude)

Sort of like puting salt in the percolator.

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:32 pm

mrjimsfc wrote:salt in the percolator

?
Does that have something to do with these "sanan muunnokset"?

sammy · Post by **sammy** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:53 pm

mrjimsfc wrote:
sammy wrote: has nothing much at all to do with the structures of the language per se (I've always wanted to use that expression since it's vaguely rude)
Sort of like puting salt in the percolator.

Upphew, I think it's what certain Finnish expressions may sound like... a bit like Junalautoja saatavan Perkiön asemalta, rather than a spoonerism?

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