Pregnant and depressed

angelbide · Post by **angelbide** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:50 pm

Hi all,

I need help and advice. I'm pregnant and due in 2 months but I have been depressed almost for the past 3 months. I try to keep a smiling face but I'm hurting deep inside. It took a while before I became pregnant and now that I am, I almost feel guilty. I know there are couples out there hoping that one day, they have a child of their own. I work as a registered nurse, speak Finnish to the best of my ability and I can say I'm satisfied with my salary.

What is the root of my depression? My husband is an intelligent person (just being modest here) and he graduated with MSC in Real Estate and Finance Management in Helsinki since March and he has applied to almost a 100 jobs (before and after graduation) within Finland and no luck. Not even a single interview. He is doing an MBA at the moment, doing certification exams and applied for a PHD recently. He speaks little Finnish and really studying hard as well. At the moment he works with Posti delivering papers in the middle of the night and I can imagine how he feels. Prior to coming to Finland he had a very good and well paid job and now, its like his dreams are falling apart. At 34, he says he is not where he should be. He has been looking for a way to move to an English speaking country by applying for a job (he applied but all to no avail) or PHD there. In the situation of this economic crisis, I'm worried that if we move, we might end up in a very bad state (of course I didn't tell him that). He doesn't want to spend another year here in Finland.

As a wife, I'm lost. I don't know the right things to tell him and I don't want to say something that might hurt his feelings. I know a man has to be a man and do what he has to do. I think he is really desperate now. He told me recently even if he gets a job here in Finland which doesn't pay much, he wouldn't mind because he needs the experience. He is a very good person and honestly I am blessed to be married to him. At the moment, nothing excites him. I can't even remember the last time we talked about the baby I'm carrying. I've only been married for 17 months and I feel as if I'm not doing enough or i'm failing in my role as a wife. I have been very ill in the past month and I've been thinking too much that it's affecting my job. I'm really worried. Am I being selfish? Has anyone being in a similar situation like mine? Any advice? Any advice from people who have been married for years? What can I say to him? Your opinions are appreciated.

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mita · Post by **mita** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:09 pm

The job situation is not uncommon in Finland as you already know. I don't know what your religeous background is but their is a great international church with lots of young couples attending many of which might be in a similar situation. it's called United Community Church. Website is www.eicf.com Site is under construction but you can find addresses and contact info there. I would reccomend it.

EP · Post by EP » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:06 am

its like his dreams are falling apart. At 34, he says he is not where he should be. He has been looking for a way to move to an English speaking country by applying for a job (he applied but all to no avail) or PHD there. In the situation of this economic crisis, I'm worried that if we move, we might end up in a very bad state (of course I didn't tell him that). He doesn't want to spend another year here in Finland.

It is late and I really ought to be in bed. But your situation just sounds so sad. It is not you who is depressed, you are happy about your baby, and you are happy about your husband. You are happy. It is your husband who is depressed and sad. And you feel bad for his sake. And for a reason. He has all the reasons to be depressed and worried (except of course not the baby and not you, you are not reasons). You are not failing anything because there is nothing you can do to help him. I say that move ANY PLACE where he can find a satisfying job. And he is right: at 34 work experience is more important than PHD or any further degree.

angelbide · Post by **angelbide** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:49 pm

Thanks Mita for the link. I'll keep checking the site and hopefully the site will be back soon.

Ep, thanks for enlightening me. Especially for the fact that you mentioned that i'm not failing (Hmm...I feel a lot better). Thanks for pointing that out to me. I appreciate it.

Idefix · Post by **Idefix** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:22 pm

angelbide wrote: he has applied to almost a 100 jobs (before and after graduation) within Finland and no luck. .... Prior to coming to Finland he had a very good and well paid job and now, its like his dreams are falling apart. At 34, he says he is not where he should be. He has been looking for a way to move to an English speaking country by applying for a job (he applied but all to no avail) or PHD there. In the situation of this economic crisis, I'm worried that if we move, we might end up in a very bad state (of course I didn't tell him that). He doesn't want to spend another year here in Finland.

At the moment, nothing excites him. I can't even remember the last time we talked about the baby I'm carrying....

Any advice from people who have been married for years? What can I say to him? Your opinions are appreciated.

I agree with previous posters, it is not really you that have problems, it is your husband. But how we choose to deal with our problems is of course different person to person. Your husband seems to put a great deal of his worth in his job, and nothing wrong with that. But as long as you and your family has a roof over your head, and are not starving, a baby and healthy family should be worth at least as much. Many people are in the same situation in todays economy; a good education is not a guarantee to get a job anymore.
Depending on where you are thinking of moving, consider the health care you get in Finland for your baby, not all countries have the same access, or for the same rates ("free") (thinking of the US for instance, where it is all but free or cheap, where he/you would have to find a job providing health care benefits).

To define where one "should be" in the job market at a certain age have no set answer, it all depends on your journey in life. And the overall economy. Today there are 25-30 year olds living at home, that have never had the chance to get a real job and move away from home. This scenario was unthinkable some 20 years ago. And it is even harder if you are not a native speaker of the language. Jobs come and go. But a healthy baby and family is harder to replace. I am not sure though how you could get him to appreciate what he actually has, instead of only focus so hard on what he does not have....

Edited to say, after 10 years of marriage and a 14 month old boy, I would if I have to give up our jobs, house, and everything but my family. I would survive living on the street as long as I have them. Hang in there!

Mook · Post by **Mook** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:54 pm

I know of a whole heap of foreigners that took the "MBA" route into finland i.e. came as a matkamuisti and did the HSE MBA. They all now have very good jobs - quite a few of them found them through the MBA mafia. So. it just takes time.

angelbide · Post by **angelbide** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:29 pm

Idefix, you were right when you mentioned that my husband seems to put a great deal of worth on his job. I feel the same way too and I really don't blame him. ''Jobs come and go. But a healthy baby and family is harder to replace'' This sentence means a lot to me.

Honestly, I'm not sure if I really want to leave Finland in the next one year. I've lived here for 8 years and I think I'm confident enough to call Finland my second home. My husband and I both have A status living in here and i'm scared if we move (with nothing tying us to finland) we might loose our resident permit. That means we have to start all over again somewhere else. Thinking about this now I feel I'm being selfish and I should just take the risk for the sake of my husband happiness but you never know what life will throw at you. Right? I think I will just give this more thought. Mook, I know it takes time but you know, sometimes we humans are not patient enough. I just hope it will happen soon. Thanks a lot guys.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:29 pm

Mind me then asking - you've lived here long enough? - you speak the language (got schooling in Finnish?)
=> apply for Finnish citizenship???
Because remember as if you're a "foreigner" your kid will be a "foreigner" as well and you get all extra paperwork to have to deal with...

angelbide · Post by **angelbide** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:52 pm

Yes Pursuivant, I schooled here. Got my first and second degree here. I came as a student. I'm not eligible to apply for the citizenship until two or three years from now.

Henry-Finland · Post by **Henry-Finland** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:55 pm

As I understand, you do not have an EU-citizenship, as you can't move to e.g. Britain.
But I think you can both work in Sweden. They are more used to foreigners working and the language is quite easy to learn, as you both speak English. I mean, there are no fast solutions.

Without dragging here my own problems, but the family of my wife has a problem with:
- daughter has an Russian passport - and work in Latvia. The salary has been reduced to the absolute minimum.
- her husband has an EU-passport, living with us here in Finland, as he is working here, so that his parents can "survive".
- His mother has a Russian passport and father has no passport. No work and they are not going to leave Latvia. The option is to import something from there, produce it there, sell it here. [Long story].
We have tried to put all this together somehow, and I am positive that there will be a solution, but not within a year or two.
As I see it, the plan, what to do, is the most important. And to have plan B, C and D, is also needed.
In our case, the plan A is just how to keep bread on the table and go further with plan B and C. My problem is, that the people concerned, sees that route through studying languages as a too long route. But it is the shortest one really.
The question is; which languages gives the best options in plan B, C and D?

Not much help from me, I am afraid, but your profession is very good in this situation. Every northern country needs you.
After a year or so, you can work again. Apply for a job at a hospital that can offer your husband a daytime job. Meanwhile, the year or two that this "meanwhile" takes, invest your spare time to studying languages. Depending on what countries you will have in your plans. Try to get a Finnish citizenship, just so that you can work in any EU-country.
Even if you work in Britain within five years, to know other languages is a good thing to have invested to.
And after five years, you both still are in your thirties. I turn 60 next year, and I am optimistic about my never-ending-fight-for-a-place-in-the-sun, so what problems do you have? Five years, it is a short period, and my concern is, if I can manage all I want, before pension?
Well, I just wrote about Arvo Ylppö, the Finnish Doctor Spock, in another thread. He worked till he was 100 years or 101, so I do not have a big problem either. I am a carpenter and carpenters are always needed. A carpenter that speaks five languages has no problems on this earth. And whatever my grandchildren will be, they will be able to make their own furniture. Grand-pa, that's me, will teach them.
Just aside; I begun to study computers at the age of 56 and I have promised myself to speak French before I turn 63. And I am a f***ing stubborn Finn. So I will. I always thought that a carpenter needs to know at least some six languages.

Henry

Kinku · Post by **Kinku** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:08 am

my two cents about MBA

in Finland, most education are free, except MBA. It is more like complimentary "degree", plus it cost a hell. So if he start to study MBA degree, he will not have student aid support and so on. as I know, there are not many full time MBA program available. Even there is, it would be hard to coordinate with a post job at the same time, probably harder after you get baby. Most MBA students in top universities here(if any), are starting to middle level managers and job-place-jugglers. I do not think a MBA from school like Helia or Hameelinna will help much.

per media, there is plan to increase student enrollment in higher education this year. this will produce more bachelors and masters in the coming few years. I also heard that many people who are in temporary layoff or volunteer off are in school to complete a new degree. So I think just a degree will not help much to beat out.

Current economic situation makes job market more difficult for job seeker. So I think probably some other fields that traditionally need more employee might be a better choice. Being a nurse is a good choice. try to think something else that might fit him better.

I think he need to re-prioritize life goal, when there is a new-born come. Is Finland a good choice? if it is, then just try best to fit into, down to the ground approach, cut big goal into realistic milestones then work hard for it.

I wish your husband and you a happy life together with new born.

airlineguy1980 · Post by **airlineguy1980** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:08 pm

hi,
just wanna ask u this.which country are u from?but to be frank just hang in there like others said until u eligible for finnish citizenship.for your info even b permit which u spend as family member count towards the six years.i have written email from the officer itself.if you need i can forward it to you.they gona chnage this law soon but if for example u were studying in B permit but ur husband worked then you guys swapped over.some of your years spent as b permit based on family ties counted toward finnish citizenship.
you cant do much to help your husband.i m guy myself but u can do one thing just support him keep the house finance in order so he wont stress out.if you do this for a respectable family man can always can swing back in to good mood.trust me i have gone thru what ur husband have gone thru even without a partner even.remember men are like wild rivers but its the bank which guide the river into more stream line river.just take his focus of his job.may be he feel inferior he is not contributing.so u have to solve this issue i m sure he will back to mood

Galith · Post by **Galith** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:24 pm

Hi Angelbide,

I'm so sorry to hear about your story.
As a foreigner who went through difficult employment situation too, i found that one area that still hires clever people with no prior experience is the I.T Business. (especially testing that doesn't require a lot of technical skills, but a strong analytical mindset and business background)

The pay is good as a tester and maybe your husband could give it a try .
AS the times are tight, there is no guarantee that he might get a job , but it's always worth checking? check companies such as ACCENTURE; LOGICA, TIETO, NICE CONSULTING, ...

Hang in there. You are in one of the best country to have babies ( our little girl was born not so long ago

and i don't regret having moved here despite of the tough times i've been through professionally ) and when i use to worry about our financial situation while pregnant, my mum use to tell me that the baby brings the bread to the familly, so don't worry, things will clear up and your husband will get the professional life he deserves. Just keep strong and optimistic to welcome your child in the best conditions possible

Cheers!

angelbide · Post by **angelbide** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:35 am

Happy New year to you all. Its been a while since I came to this site. I have been sick, been in and out of doctors offices and the hospital. I'm much better now and now resting. I've been cleaning and preparing for the baby. Less than 50 days to go

. Thanks a lot for taking time to give me your opinions and advice. They are all appreciated.

I have had a discussion with my husband on this issue and right now, we are focusing on a healthy baby, marriage and family. He still has hopes that he will find something good and Mook, I think it has finally settled in his heart that it takes time. He got addmitted to do his PHD. I thought it was a good idea while waiting for a breakthrough in his career and he's got time on his hands. He feels good about it so, I'm happy.

Airlineguy, thanks for the info on the permit stuff. I didn't know about that. It was thoughtful of you to have offered help or reference. Galith, thank you for the info as well. Congratulations on your bundle of joy.

Tiwaz · Post by **Tiwaz** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:54 pm

Well, I'll give my advice too...

Your husband should in terms of learning new skills put his efforts in Finnish. Things tend to get easier once you have figured out that hurdle, as he would at same time learn cultural ideas and norms common for Finns. Off the top of my head I have a feeling, could be wrong I'm in engineering area so business and real estate is bit foggy as field, that he would definitely need Finnish to do his job well unless working somehow in situation where he does not need to be in any contact with Finnish customers.

And good luck with your pregnancy.

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