When spending a family holiday in Finland... - A question.

[Henry-Finland]

We are a bunch of Finnish guys planning to build a new type of holiday-resort:
- Free Adventure-park and Fairy Tale Forest for the kids
- Culture and traditional DIY-courses for adults
- basic food, prepared food at the cafe'
- traditional products made by different craftpersons.

What we do not sell:
Candies, chips, cheap-thrill-stuff, alcohol

The idea is this:
- The kids can run and play in the forest and the Adventure Park. In the (fenced, so that they do not get lost) forest they will find the house of Red Riding Hood's granny's house, the gingerbread house, the castle of the Troll-king etc.



- There is also a small "tribe-village" and a Pirate ship. [How the pirate-ship came to the forest is a long story, but only for kids. ]
- Paths for walking in the nature with multilingual signs telling about different aspects in the woods.
- The possibility to see domestic animals in different areas surrounded by fences.
And all for free.

- The adults can meanwhile follow the different craftsperson's work in different huts. [For free] They can also buy stuff from the craftspersons, or put e.g. an order to the black-smith about a forged lamp-stand or such.
- The adults can also take part in different courses of different crafts. [The courses are commercial.]



The courses are often kept outdoors. The black-smith shop to the right.

- People can buy locally produced meat, vegetables, jams, bakery-products etc.
- Families can eat at the cafe'. All raw-materials for the food is produced locally. [Sorry - no pizza or hamburgers.]



The painters' house.

The questions:
How would you and your family look upon such a (slow-)resort?
Something missing?
Any questions?


Henry

[littlefrank]

Make sure it's accessible by public transport, preferably train.

[rinso]

Ideas sound good. But the target group might be smaller than you expect.
So far it looks like a one day trip, so location and transportation are important.

[CH]

So... most is for free, but I wonder where you are actually going to get your income? It seems like you have a fun structures for kids & a crafts village for adults. A little bit of this and a little bit of that, but not really enough for neither. So I would ponder on which one you really want to do. Do you want a crafts village with something to do for the children, or the other way around. If it doesn't have "enough" on either side, you may not have enough power to draw people all the way to Heinävesi (at least I understood from your homepages that that is where you are going to build it). But, you might be able to tap into the tourists that are visiting that area for other reasons, so I would take the amount of tourists in that area and calculate from that how many would potentially be interested in visiting your site... and how many of those would actually buy some crafts, as that seems to be your main income (or renting the places to crafts people, I assume, but they still would want to actually sell someting).

Anyway, I would be more interested if the craft courses would be family based. I'm not going to leave my child running around unsupervised while I go do crafts somewhere. I would love to do some real hands on crafts like pottery or blacksmithing with my daughter though. But like I said, it would have to have something really substantial for it to draw me all the way there, and at least from your current plans I don't see it.

[Pursuivant]

Reinvent the wheel?
http://www.huvipuisto.net/huvipuis/jukujuku.htm
http://www.huvipuisto.net/huvipuis/unohdettu.htm

[Rosamunda]

Yes, I think Raasepori has a similar problem. There is tons to do in Fiskars: blacksmithing, blassblowing, ceramics, fabulous fly-fishing with Orvis etc and there's shopping and places to eat/picnic, excellent ice-cream , plus cultural stuff (museums) and open air markets, plenty of local events AND there is a golf course nearby and slopes at Påminne (a karting track in summer) etc etc etc BUT BUT BUT, the season is incredibly short: maybe 8 weeks at best depending on the weather. It's easy to get there from Helsinki but people come for the day, picnic go home.... they rarely spend a lot of money. The craftspeople (there are many of them in Fiskars) make their living outside the village selling through retailers eg in Helsinki.

The big money is in corporate events (and that's how the craftspeople also make money off-season) rather than in day trippers. But for corporate events to be successful you need (good) accomodation. Something Fiskars is a bit short of.

There is no money in school parties either (because the municipalities have no cash to spend).

If you don't have a regular local trade, it will take you years to recuperate your investment. Mainly because the season is so short. For example: have you actually costed the price of all those "green" roofs? Do you know how much green roofs cost per square metre.....

And if you don't sell soda and candy then.... I'm not sure there is much hope. Sad but true. Last year we sold 100% fruit juice in our kiosk - hardly anyone bought it. This year we sold boxes of coloured sweetened water (aka Trip) and it flew off the shelf.

[Henry-Finland]

sounds great, I'm just wondering where in Finland this would be located? Also will there be accommodation on-site? How do you plan to make a profit, if most of the attractions are free? Just curious, it seems like you guys have put a lot of thought and effort into this endeavour, good luck

There will not be accommodation on site, because there is plenty of different types of accommodations nearby.
About profit-making:
- The main income comes from courses, especially courses about how to build straw-bale houses. And of course, by building such houses to people that likes to have such.




The house above is built by a photographer in Great Britain, Simon Dale. If you like it and have a site, then there is only the question of how many sq.meters and how much, if any, you would like to do yourself? And the cost for you can then be calculated.

I will make the windows and doors, having also courses about wood-work. One course can have max. 12 people, so as a general rule, we do not expect thousands of people rushing through the gates.
People that runs the cafe' are independent from others, can run a bakery if they wish and so on.
The idea is to concentrate as many different craftspersons as possible. Most people does not even know what their interest will be, before they see how its made. Beside pottery that is.

A lot of ideas (some 130 pics), can be downloaded here:
http://provillage.wordpress.com/about/
And here is the blog in English:
http://provillage.wordpress.com/category/in-english/

The Finnish blog has a little bit more material, but I think that the ideas are found in the English ones as well.


Henry

[Henry-Finland]

Make sure it's accessible by public transport, preferably train.

Heinävesi, where we have planned this village to be, has two railways-stations. It is very true that it is very important.
Where we can begin to build, is still an open question that I think we will solve within some months.

Henry

[Rosamunda]

Those straw-bale houses look like Teletubbies' house!!!

I think they are really good fun. Some kind of a camp site with huts like those would be fun! And then you can build your menagerie, café, adventure park and courses around the camp site. Even foreigners would pay to sleep in houses like those.

When you say there is a lot of accomodation nearby, what do you mean? Hotels?

If you are running straw-bale house courses then why bother with all adventure park stuff? I think you need to start up with just your "core business" (the DIY courses???) and then expand into the kid's stuff if there is a demand for it. If no one is interested in your straw-bale house courses, then the whole megopolis will become a white elephant. Most people who spend all weekend doing DIY stuff are trying to escape from the kids, aren't they?


Or start with a "green" camp site and adventure park and then start up the courses if people are interested.

[J.Honkanen]

I think they are really good fun. Some kind of a camp site with huts like those would be fun! And then you can build your menagerie, café, adventure park and courses around the camp site. Even foreigners would pay to sleep in houses like those.

I agree with penelope. I would pay to stay in houses like those with all the rest set up around it. I think people might be more likely to come if there is a place to stay overnight, and those huts seem like they would fit perfectly with your overall design as overnight accomodations.

[Henry-Finland]

Ideas sound good. But the target group might be smaller than you expect.
So far it looks like a one day trip, so location and transportation are important.

and

So... most is for free, but I wonder where you are actually going to get your income? It seems like you have a fun structures for kids & a crafts village for adults. A little bit of this and a little bit of that, but not really enough for neither. So I would ponder on which one you really want to do. Do you want a crafts village with something to do for the children, or the other way around. If it doesn't have "enough" on either side, you may not have enough power to draw people all the way to Heinävesi (at least I understood from your homepages that that is where you are going to build it). But, you might be able to tap into the tourists that are visiting that area for other reasons, so I would take the amount of tourists in that area and calculate from that how many would potentially be interested in visiting your site... and how many of those would actually buy some crafts, as that seems to be your main income (or renting the places to crafts people, I assume, but they still would want to actually sell someting).

Well, our target groups are a mix really:

1) Families travelling in a car. [I would say that getting people from more than 100 km radius is just a little bit optimistic, but many families makes long journeys to one direction or another.]

2) Single-moms [that never can afford anything much and can't get *anywhere*]. Well, that was a litle bit black and white, but if a single mom wants to get on a course, she has to put the kid(s) somewhere. The options are:
- To a similar course for kids. [I am the grand-pa taking care of wood-work and electronics.] These courses for the kids are also useful at rainy days.

Anyway, I would be more interested if the craft courses would be family based. I'm not going to leave my child running around unsupervised while I go do crafts somewhere. I would love to do some real hands on crafts like pottery or blacksmithing with my daughter though. But like I said, it would have to have something really substantial for it to draw me all the way there, and at least from your current plans I don't see it.

As CH here above tells , the parents can also attend e.g. the courses for children.

- Take the kids to the never-ending-work with the Pirate-ship. I fix the presawn boards and such where ever dangerous equipment are needed. This kind of work for the kids teach them to work in groups and they learn to know each other. They will not be able to do something the whole day, but there will be many different tasks.
As you can understand from this, we will not expect thousands of people coming.
- Single or not single pa's can show their children how to build. There is no opportunities to do such things together with the child/children, living in a city. Been there - seen that.

3) Those that are interested of handicraft and culture, the culture around hundreds of years of handicraft. Restauration is also quite interesting for many.

4) Those that wants to learn a trade, building houses of straw and other natural products. We use stones, clay, straw-bales, thinning-wood, sand, second-hand glass. The only thing we really buy for the main constuction are: waterproof materials for the roof, lime, and the technical stuff like wires, some tubes, nails and so on. E.g. the draining of the gray and black water will be built by ourselves and according to the law and regulations.
It takes some 12 - 16 months for two persons to build such a house. Much work, but the costs are just a joke compared with 'normative' houses. If these two assumed persons would also like to build their own saw-mill and saw everything by themselves, they have to add some 4 - 8 months to the project.

5) Those that just want to help. Usually foreigners that wants to spend their summer in some "strange" country and Finns that lives in the cities.
And these guys: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xa4755 ... one_webcam
A Canadian, not giving up too easy. RESPECT!

6) Firms. And that is a long, too long story, so I save it until "we are there".

I probly forgot some groups, but I come back to that later.


Heney

[Rosamunda]

I think one of you needs to go on a business course!!!
Your ideas are great but they just won't generate enough cash short term to feed "the bunch" of you (how many of you are there?)
You need to keep your feet on the ground and look at what makes business sense.... there is not much cash to be made from grandpas and single moms. Your intentions are honorable but you won't last more than a year unless you have a wealthy sponsor behind you!!!
And you need to focus. One thing at a time. You are not focused. If you have limited cash to invest, you can't afford to spread it around.

But I think you have already decided what you want to do. I'm not sure why you actually posted on here.

[Henry-Finland]

Reinvent the wheel?
http://www.huvipuisto.net/huvipuis/jukujuku.htm
http://www.huvipuisto.net/huvipuis/unohdettu.htm

I know about these amusement parks. Their consepts are radically different as there were hired personell on the site.
Many of the other ones that has gone bankrupt or just vanished, have had a more "depending on money"-consept. I mean that they have made investments that has to be paid back etc.
We aim to live there as we live now: Making handicraft, working with culture etc.
The difference is, that we do not pay rents and together we get more attention than living spread out in different centers or a way in the bushes.
I would like to underline that we are not hippies, but just tired on living like we do => When you produce, you can't sell and when you sell, you can't produce.

I take myself as an example:
- There is a lot of old houses in the region. I restore windows, same style as it has been, whatever the style is.
- I get a job about this above. People actually see me at work, sees the result. They have easier to hire me for the job.
Result: I get more work without running around distibuting advertisments.
And when there is a course where I teach people this or that, I do that at my home. (That I have built according to my needs).
P.S. I do a lot of other stuff also, not just windows.

The guy that has drawn all the pics used in this thread; Tero Syvänen translates whatever within Chinese - English - Finnish. When he is not building a straw-bale house, that is.


Henry

[Henry-Finland]

Yes, I think Raasepori has a similar problem. There is tons to do in Fiskars: blacksmithing, blassblowing, ceramics, fabulous fly-fishing with Orvis etc and there's shopping and places to eat/picnic, excellent ice-cream , plus cultural stuff (museums) and open air markets, plenty of local events AND there is a golf course nearby and slopes at Påminne (a karting track in summer) etc etc etc BUT BUT BUT, the season is incredibly short: maybe 8 weeks at best depending on the weather. It's easy to get there from Helsinki but people come for the day, picnic go home.... they rarely spend a lot of money. The craftspeople (there are many of them in Fiskars) make their living outside the village selling through retailers eg in Helsinki.

We know about these problems around Pohja-Pojo. Even if the craftsmen does not sell so much to the people you mentioned, the "process of showing up" helps to sell in eg. Helsinki.

The big money is in corporate events (and that's how the craftspeople also make money off-season) rather than in day trippers. But for corporate events to be successful you need (good) accomodation. Something Fiskars is a bit short of.

We have plenty of that. The monestery alone has 300 beds and there are many other options nearby.

There is no money in school parties either (because the municipalities have no cash to spend).

If you don't have a regular local trade, it will take you years to recuperate your investment. Mainly because the season is so short. For example: have you actually costed the price of all those "green" roofs? Do you know how much green roofs cost per square metre.....

It depends how you build the green roof. You can plow a lot of money into it, that's true. We don't.

And if you don't sell soda and candy then.... I'm not sure there is much hope. Sad but true. Last year we sold 100% fruit juice in our kiosk - hardly anyone bought it. This year we sold boxes of coloured sweetened water (aka Trip) and it flew off the shelf.

There truly is a problem. We have some that want's to sell "clean food", and the commercial pressure of "chemical sugar-water" is hard endeed. And this is one question, why I wrote here. How does the foreigners adapt such marketing?
To clear it a little bit: I know parents that does not visit shops that have their cany-sortiment at/near the cashier. Those are glad to come away from the commercial pressure that preach "How stylish this or that product is" as even most of the adults fall for it and the children are brainwashed from the early days they were born.
So, how are the foreigners feeling about this?

I think one of you needs to go on a business course!!!
Your ideas are great but they just won't generate enough cash short term to feed "the bunch" of you (how many of you are there?)
You need to keep your feet on the ground and look at what makes business sense.... there is not much cash to be made from grandpas and single moms. Your intentions are honorable but you won't last more than a year unless you have a wealthy sponsor behind you!!!

Business courses are the last thing we need, believe me.

And you need to focus. One thing at a time. You are not focused. If you have limited cash to invest, you can't afford to spread it around.
But I think you have already decided what you want to do. I'm not sure why you actually posted on here.

We have to build everything in a certain order, as the wood is not suitable for building houses before it is dried. Out-door bulding can be done with fresh wood.


Henry

[Henry-Finland]

Those straw-bale houses look like Teletubbies' house!!!

I think they are really good fun. Some kind of a camp site with huts like those would be fun! And then you can build your menagerie, café, adventure park and courses around the camp site. Even foreigners would pay to sleep in houses like those.

When you say there is a lot of accomodation nearby, what do you mean? Hotels?

If you are running straw-bale house courses then why bother with all adventure park stuff? I think you need to start up with just your "core business" (the DIY courses???) and then expand into the kid's stuff if there is a demand for it. If no one is interested in your straw-bale house courses, then the whole megopolis will become a white elephant. Most people who spend all weekend doing DIY stuff are trying to escape from the kids, aren't they?


Or start with a "green" camp site and adventure park and then start up the courses if people are interested.

Yes, the adventure park is why people stops by in first place.
It is important, as you say, to find out what kind of courses people wants.
And the park can also work like this: You push your husband/boyfriend to the park with the kids and go yourself on a DIY-course. You see them next time when the lunch is ready (Husband pays.) and the next time after that, when the dinner is ready. We fix the dishes, do not worry about husband doing also that.
Then comes the "down" thing: Your husband is probably already so exhausted or at sleep when you want to go to your hut or whatever you have rented (through us), so you have to drive. Or we fix the transport. (You pay, as we do not see it to be very polite to wake up people on their holidays.)


Henry