Moving to finland with my family (to work)

Apatbol · Post by **Apatbol** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:46 pm

Hello !
My (german) company proposes me (I'm french) to work in Finland (Helsinki) permanently.
I've never been to Finland before, and I don't know anythink about this country (but I'm looking on the Internet 24 H/24 H at the moment !!!).
I had the proposal last thursday, and I must give a response before next Friday...

I saw many messages, but I still have few questions.... Is anybody can help me by giving few responses ?

I will come with my 4 children (2/5/10/12 years old) and my wife.

Question 1 : About school/children
I think my 2 youngest daughters can go in finnish school directly, but I think It's better for the 2 eldest ones to go to an international school (french school Jules Verne in Helsinki) 2 or 3 years, before going in a finnish school (question of language, they have been learning english for 2 years at school). This school is really expensive (5000 €/year/children).
What about finnish schools ? Is it a good idea to place my 2 youngest daughters directly in a finnish school ?

Question 2 : About children
In France, we have welfare (about 100 €/month per children, till they are 18).
Is there anything similar in Finland ?

Question 3 : About house
I saw, on websites, the cost for a 5 bedrooms house/flat varies between 1100 € (In the suburbs of Helsinki) to 2100 € (In helsinki)
Is it a correct evaluation ?

Question 4 : About dog
I also have a dog... What about bringing it in Finland (problem to rent a house for exemple, ...), and is there a kennel in helsinki to keep the dog during the holidays (I think we will go back in france by plane)...

Question 5 : About job
My wife is a nurse in France. Is it possible to find a job easily in Finland (does this type of job interresting in Finland ?)

Question 6 : About Salary
My gross salary is about 65/70 K€ per year (50 K€ net income in France) with no advantages.
How do I must expect in Finland to keep the same way of life ? (I think the cost of live is upper in Finland)

Question 7 : About car
I have a big car/van (Renault Trafic, 2 years old) to transport my family everywhere....
Is it better for me to sell it in France, and buy a new one equipped for Finland winter, or is it interresting to move with my vehicle ?

Question 8 : About anything else
If you think other informations are important for me, Could you tell me ?

Thank you very much !!!

**Sponsor:**

maurine · Post by **maurine** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:08 pm

i would try to answer some of your questions, remember i might not be right
Question 1 : About school/children

What about Finnish schools ? Is it a good idea to place my 2 youngest daughters directly in a finnish school ?
it will be a little bit difficult to put the kids straight to a Finnish school i mean due to the language incapability since i believe they dont speak Finnish, maybe placing them in a international English will be much better, of course the kids can also learn in a Finnish school.

Question 2 : About children
In France, we have welfare (about 100 €/month per children, till they are 18).
Is there anything similar in Finland ?

yes in Finland they also have social welfare, and it increase with the number of kids in the family.

Question 3 : About house
I saw, on websites, the cost for a 5 bedrooms house/flat varies between 1100 € (In the suburbs of Helsinki) to 2100 € (In helsinki)
Is it a correct evaluation ?

yes living in Helsinki is quite expensive, but of course it depends with the area too, getting an apartment is not very easy, unless its an expensive one then it might be easy. you can apply also with the city appartment ( www.hel.fi )

Question 4 : About dog
I also have a dog... What about bringing it in Finland (problem to rent a house for exemple, ...), and is there a kennel in helsinki to keep the dog during the holidays (I think we will go back in france by plane)...

yes you can bring the dog with you,

Question 5 : About job
My wife is a nurse in France. Is it possible to find a job easily in Finland (does this type of job interresting in Finland ?)

There are lots of nursing jobs in Finland but your wife must speak Finnish to get a job, at the moment helsinki city is also recruiting foreign nurse who live in Finland, so they kind of give them training and work at the same time, so your wife can enrol on that.

Question 6 : About Salary
My gross salary is about 65/70 K€ per year (50 K€ net income in France) with no advantages.
How do I must expect in Finland to keep the same way of life ? (I think the cost of live is upper in Finland)

i guess it depends with your spending, but all i can say Finland is much more expensive than living in Germany but of course you will manage.

Question 7 : About car
I have a big car/van (Renault Trafic, 2 years old) to transport my family everywhere....
Is it better for me to sell it in France, and buy a new one equipped for Finland winter, or is it interresting to move with my vehicle ?

i guess you can move with your car, or buy one here, thats your choice

Welcome to Finland if you decided to move

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:13 pm

AFAIK Lycée franco-finlandais d'Helsinki and Jules Verne are 2 different things, the one is Finnish curriculum taught in French like language immersion and the other is French curriculum - I'd think the JV is the "private" sector for say diplomats or expats just 2-3 years in who don't want their children to get diverted from the "French system" as they plan then in continuin in France. So if you are planning to stay in Finland, the Lycee gets the kids onto the "Finnish path".

Then the missus needs to bring *all the papers* regarding her education and certificates. As it is an EU-certificate it can be accredited (she has to apply for the recognition but its straigntforward process => ) but then as said, its language, language, language.

Dunno, my sister lives in France, but they'd be posh in Finland so I can't really say whats the difference. It may be worth bringing the car, but you really should think of when you come about public transport, and don't live somewhere "cheap" and then have to commute hours on end as if you were living in some metropolis when you can organize things. When you come the best idea is to negotiate the company finds you a flat and rents it to you as benefit. Its much easier than having to shell out the deposit & trying to find one yourself.

And yes, its very "interesting" all the things you mentioned, but I'd call that "masochism"

PS. toa ask about the school and such maybe the peoples at www.sudfinlande.net would know better as well

CH · Post by CH » Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:20 pm

A couple of weeks is a very short time to make such a big life changing desicion!

As your younger children are 2 and 5 they wouldn't yet be going to school yet. But, they can go to daycare, and the year they turn 6 they can go to preschool, which is free but not compulsory. School starts the year they turn seven.

If you want your youngest to start in Finnish school then I think putting them in a Finnish speaking daycare/preschool would be a good idea. That way they would have a bit of time to learn the language before they start school. Note, that usually preschool is only half day, and the rest of the time, if needed, is as daycare.

About the "anything else"... well, I would think about what kind of life you are used to, and what kind of life you want to have. Can Finland offer that, or something else that will make up for the part you may loose? There is a French expat board that I hope somebody will pipe up with the webpage for, as I cannot remember or find it now. Ask perhaps there how people from France find living here to be, what they have liked and what they miss.

LottaP · Post by **LottaP** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:32 pm

Apatbol wrote:Question 1 : About school/children

I'd agree with CH that if you want to put your two youngest straight to Finnish school, then start them in Finnish daycare/preschool asap so they can have a chance to learn some Finnish first. The City of Helsinki has some useful information for you on these two sites: Comprehensive schools and Education for Foreigners (see 'Teaching in Foreign Languages' -> 'French-language Teaching'). Note that the Lycee is state-operated and therefore there are no fees.

Apatbol wrote:Question 2 : About children

The details can be found on the Kela website. Kela is the "Social Insurance Institution of Finland".

Apatbol wrote:Question 3 : About house

Price varies a lot depending on location, you can have a search at Vuokraovi.com which is now available also in English (the region for Helsinki is "Uusimaa"). You can also look at houses in Espoo, Vantaa or Kauniainen, who together with Helsinki form the "Helsinki Metropolitan Area".

Apatbol wrote:Question 4 : About dog

Yes there are kennels available over here. In order to take your dog with you, it will most likely need a Pet Passport, a chip and possibly some vaccinations. I'm not sure about Germany but there's a chance your dog might need a rabies vaccination, and that can take a month if they also require a blood test to prove it worked. If you do want to bring your dog with you and running a tight schedule, try to find out more as soon as possible.

Apatbol wrote:Question 7 : About car

I don't see any problem bringing your car over here, you'll just need to make sure you have proper winter tyres. I don't know about the cost of cars in Germany, but they tend to be pretty expensive over here so you're probably better off holding on to your current car, especially given that it's still quite new

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:31 pm

Apatbol wrote:
Question 1 : About school/children
I think my 2 youngest daughters can go in finnish school directly, but I think It's better for the 2 eldest ones to go to an international school (french school Jules Verne in Helsinki) 2 or 3 years, before going in a finnish school (question of language, they have been learning english for 2 years at school). This school is really expensive (5000 €/year/children).
What about finnish schools ? Is it a good idea to place my 2 youngest daughters directly in a finnish school ?

The problem with Jules Verne is that it teaches the French curriculum, not the Finnish national curriculum, so it is more difficult to switch into the Finnish system. Also, in the upper grades (à partir du 6e) some of the subjects are taught through the Cned, as they don't have all the subject teachers. Most of the students are in the primary school, there are fewer students in the collège. Also, I think it very UNLIKELY that your children will learn any Finnish while they are at Jules Verne. The environment is predominantly French speaking. The European school http://www.esh.fi is now accepting enrolments for August 2010, this is also an option for you since it is cheaper than Jules Verne and will have a French speaking stream leading to the European Baccalaureat. Another alternative is an English immersion school such as Maunula or Kulosaari. If you want more info on English speaking schools then PM me (en français si tu préfères).

Question 2 : About children
In France, we have welfare (about 100 €/month per children, till they are 18).
Is there anything similar in Finland ?

Yes, you can find all the details on http://www.kela.fi

Question 3 : About house
I saw, on websites, the cost for a 5 bedrooms house/flat varies between 1100 € (In the suburbs of Helsinki) to 2100 € (In helsinki)
Is it a correct evaluation ?

You will not find a house (a pavillon ou maison individuelle) with 5 bedrooms for 2100€. Even in the suburbs a 5 bedroom detached house is nearer 3000€/month or even more. If you are thinking of staying here a long time then consider buying as it is a buyer's market at the moment. House prices in Helsinki dropped significantly in the last quarter.

Question 4 : About dog
I also have a dog... What about bringing it in Finland (problem to rent a house for exemple, ...), and is there a kennel in helsinki to keep the dog during the holidays (I think we will go back in france by plane)...

Finland is a nice place for dogs, the city centre is maybe not such a good place if you are in an apartment but the suburbs are good, there are loads of places to walk dogs. You can get dog insurance added to your house insurance to cover veterinary expenses.

Question 5 : About job
My wife is a nurse in France. Is it possible to find a job easily in Finland (does this type of job interresting in Finland ?)

Send a PM to Amandine K. she is French and has nursing qualifications (she can also tell you a lot more about schooling in Helsinki, as I think she is currently working in a school

)

Question 6 : About Salary
My gross salary is about 65/70 K€ per year (50 K€ net income in France) with no advantages.
How do I must expect in Finland to keep the same way of life ? (I think the cost of live is upper in Finland)

Some things are cheaper here than in France - it depends on your lifestyle and what you spend your money on. I think we were better off financially (double income and three kids) when we lived in France because taxation favours big families in France. Up here you don't really get a tax break for extra kids and husbands/wives are taxed separately. If you have a big salary you will be taxed heavily even if your wife doesn't work. On the other hand, I think we have a more relaxed way of life up here than in Paris (ne plus subir les embouteillages en banlieue tous les matins, tous les soirs... cela n'a pas de prix!!!), much, much more space to live in etc but that's a very personal assessment. I know French people who looooove life here and others who hate it.

Question 7 : About car
I have a big car/van (Renault Trafic, 2 years old) to transport my family everywhere....
Is it better for me to sell it in France, and buy a new one equipped for Finland winter, or is it interresting to move with my vehicle ?

In my opinion it is better to bring the car with you. A 7-seater car in Finland will cost you la peau des fesses

Question 8 : About anything else
If you think other informations are important for me, Could you tell me ?

http://www.salutfinlande.net (as Pursuivant suggested above) is a nice place to ask questions, even though there are not so many families on there (mostly young, single people). And you can PM me if you have some more questions.

It is a difficult decision to make, especially with so many kids. My only advice would be to consider the long term. Learning Finnish will be very difficult for your older children, but it all depends how long you intend to stay here and what your options are if you decide to move back to France. Bon courage

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:44 pm

Emmerder... he says he is working in a German company, not saying he is working in Germany... So which is it mouché?

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:14 pm

He doesn't say he is living in Germany and he doesn't mention that his kids speak German. So my guess is he lives, works in France.

I guess it could be the Länsimetro project (Siemens?)... or something similar. And he wouldn't be driving a Renault if he lived in Germany

LottaP · Post by **LottaP** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:56 am

Whoops, I got caught out by that one too! Please replace "Germany" with "France" in my post

.

Apatbol · Post by **Apatbol** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:19 am

Thank you for all these answers....

I'm french, working in france (for a french compagny : EDF) at the moment. My professionnal objective is to work abroad (out of France !).
A german compagny (Eon Energy) proposes me to work 6 month to 1 year in germany, then to move to finland.
My children are only speaking french (basic english for the eldest)

If I accept the job (and i think I will...), I will arrive in Finland at the end of 2010/beginning of 2011...for a long time (min. 5 years)

For CH :
A couple of weeks is a very short time to make such a big life changing desicion!
You bet it is !!!! (in french : ouah fan !, tu l'as dit !!! ... Je suis de la drôme, Romans sur Isère (pour le ouah fan !))
But I responded to the advert 2 month ago (thinking it was for UK at the beginning... knowing it is for finland since last week...)

If I unterdstand all the responses to my previous post...

School/Children
Lycee Jules Verne => French curriculum, in french, but no way to learn finnish and finnish culture
AFAIK Lycée franco-finlandais d'Helsinki => finnish curriculum, perhaps hard to go back to french system if I stay here a short time (but I thnik it will not be the case)
Conclusion :
Try to introduce to finnish language and culture during 2010
finnish preschool/daycare for the youngest children in 2011
AFAIK for my 3 eldest daughters if I want them to be "open-minded"
Perhaps it will be interresting to to "connected" to the french program with the CNED (in case of...)
See also European school

House
To have a 5 bedroom house, 2000 €/month will not be enough.
=> checking in the towns around Helsinki
=> Ask the compagny to take in charge the house rent
=> Buy a house instead of rent a house

Dog
No problem for the dog (I wish I can be a dog.... no souci... (in french...))
It has a chip, is vaccinated against rage (and few other thinks usually necessary for europe...), and the blood test is OK.

Car
Probably interresting to come with my car, but it is necessary to buy 4 wheels (for winter tyres), and modify the car for winter (engine heating, dinitrol)
(and I want to keep "my fesses" in a good state....)

Nurse job
I must inform myself more...

Money and way of life
In France (or germany), large family may cut off the taxes... Not in Finland.
Probably interresting to negociate salary and advantages (house rental)...
Good way of life in Finland... at the moment, I live in a small town (50 000 people), away from Paris (I worked there 2 last years...).
I have no special needs (very few discos/restaurants/...)... Normal life with my wife and 4 children (and the dog..).
What about activities for childen (Theatre, music (Flute traversière), horse-riding) ?

Thank you !!!

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:18 am

Apatbol wrote: What about activities for childen (Theatre, music (Flute traversière), horse-riding) ?

Thank you !!!

There are plenty of activities available for kids and that's a great way to get into the language. Sports clubs are probably the most popular: football attracts a huge number of juniors (football for girls is very big), also ice hockey (but you have to start very young, eg 5yrs old), also skiing, skating etc. My kids (boys) have done a lot of football but also archery, rugby, American football, ice hockey, orienteering... and then there's fishing and all kinds of other outdoor stuff.

One of my kids has had piano and classical guitar lessons. It is expensive but there are both "conservatoires" and private tutors available.

Not so sure about theatre, since you will have language issues. But there are plenty of theatre clubs and groups for kids and I'm sure they would welcome foreigners!

A lot of courses and clubs can be found through the municipality websites. Every municipality in Finland has its own webpages http://www.nameoftown.fi such as http://www.espoo.fi (and a lot of information is in English)

Do you know where you would be located??? Because (***HUOM***WARNING***ATTENTION***) if you are assigned to Kajaani then... well... life is a bit different up there compared to "HEV" (Helsinki, Espoo, Vantaa) and some of the advice given above will not apply....

(PS: re the above on tax issues. All "avantages en nature" are taxable benefits, so if you intend to negotiate rent / car / school fees etc with your employer then make sure you take into account the tax effect. It is worth reading through some of the info on http://www.vero.fi to get an idea of how the Finnish tax system works. It is completely different to the French system.)

(PPS: If you are going to spend one year as a resident in Germany it might be VERY intelligent to buy a new (or newish) car in Germany and bring it here as your personal removables when you move to Finland. Certain restrictions apply (eg it must be in your possession for at least 6 mths before you import it) but I believe it the best way of avoiding import taxes - some of the others can tell you more on this. http://www.tulli.fi/en/finnish_customs/ ... /index.jsp (read Doc no. 8 especially s. 5.3) )

Apatbol · Post by **Apatbol** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:36 am

For Penelope,

Thank you for your answer.
The job is located in Helsinki.... (I think I would say "no" to "lonely locations")

Amandine.K · Post by **Amandine.K** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:29 pm

I already sent you a pm.

Helsinki city is not recruiting foreign nurses per say. They are recruiting foreign RN (ou IDE pour la France) to make them work as practical nurses (lähihoitaja, lower salary = aide soignante). So it's not that golden rule. Plus as I said before, despite graduating here and a good understanding of Finnish I can't find a job as a nurse here.

For the school I would definitely check the European school if I were you. But you won't get the financial help from the French government.

The CAF equivalent (Kela) pays more than in France but you need to be a resident here to get it.

For the theatre hobby, they have a "troupe" in the centre culturel francais for the children. Jules Verne also has one.

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