Personal Bankruptcy

guyver1000 · Post by **guyver1000** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:13 pm

Hi,
Does anyone know how difficult or easy it is enter personal bankruptcy protection in Finland? Is there amount of debt that is required or someway to calculate if it will be granted. I do understand that your property is protected.

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EP · Post by EP » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:30 pm

Personal bankruptcy is not possible in Finland. I think.

EP · Post by EP » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:31 pm

And what do you mean by "your property is protected"? Protected from what?

guyver1000 · Post by **guyver1000** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:36 pm

EP wrote:And what do you mean by "your property is protected"? Protected from what?

Basically what property is not allowed to be touched by creditors. Example: Your home, Car etc.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:41 pm

guyver1000 wrote:I do understand that your property is protected.

In that case, you do not understand. There is thing called 'velkajärjestely' in which, by court order that you under certain conditions may get, you will pay everything you can from your income to your debtors for a period of five years, after which rest of the debt will be annulled. However, everything worth selling (everything except basic household items and furniture, low value personal items and tools you need for work, I think) you would have lost already before that. In some cases it is possible to keep your apartment/house, but there a several other conditions applied to that kind of cases (including that the duration of the payment program will longer than five years and resale value of the apartment should be relatively low compared to acceptable alternative housing costs and the house or apartment must not have been collateral for the relevant debt in the first place.

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:42 pm

guyver1000 wrote:Hi,
Does anyone know how difficult or easy it is enter personal bankruptcy protection in Finland? Is there amount of debt that is required or someway to calculate if it will be granted. I do understand that your property is protected.

Extremely hard. First you have to get personal bankruptcy law passed. Wasn't here a recent thread regarding homes and defaulting?

Rick1 · Post by **Rick1** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:48 pm

Are there also some threads with good news still? Like finding a place for a Brazilian wax or so (very interesting this time of year and temperatures). As if the wheater is not depressing enough

Perkele, how to get in personal banktruptcy. There are many bars around here where they can give you the answer.

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:49 pm

Personal bankruptcy is not possible in Finland.

If you refuse to pay or negotiate a payment plan, the creditors can take action against your property. Depending on the situation often a judge has to be involved.

Things can be complicated. If there is a mortgage on your house, an other creditor cannot touch it, but the bank can.
If you buy something and you take a loan from the shop, the shop can take it back (often in the small print in the contract)
The stuff you have fully paid for, can end up in an auction if ordered by a judge.

(and like RIP said, much depends on the resale value of things)

guyver1000 · Post by **guyver1000** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:56 pm

Rip wrote:
guyver1000 wrote:I do understand that your property is protected.
There is thing called 'velkajärjestely' in which, by court order that you under certain conditions may get, you will pay everything you can from your income to your debtors for a period of five years, after which rest of the debt will be annulled. However, everything worth selling (everything except basic household items and furniture, low value personal items and tools you need for work, I think) you would have lost already before that. In some cases it is possible to keep your apartment/house, but there a several other conditions applied to that kind of cases (including that the duration of the payment program will longer than five years and resale value of the apartment should be relatively low compared to acceptable alternative housing costs.

Yes I guess I was referring to 'velkajärjestely'. I want to know the rules on which it is granted and what is protected from the debtors. Say I own a car worth 20000€. Can the court demand that it is sold to pay back a debt? I guess I just need to find the law wriiten somewhere.

Mölkky-Fan · Post by **Mölkky-Fan** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:59 pm

How on earth did you get into such debt without having checked what the implications were beforehand?... maybe your story would help others on the board who are wondering whether to take out loans, start companies, take risks etc. Many foreigners feel this is what they have to do due to lack of employment opportunities.

Or are you preparing yourself now for potential problems later... which is hopefully what is happening..

Rick1 · Post by **Rick1** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:11 pm

Penelope might have the answer or refers you to that InFinland (or something) establishment. Sounds like you need to ask specialist.

guyver1000 · Post by **guyver1000** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:11 pm

Mölkky-Fan wrote:How on earth did you get into such debt without having checked what the implications were beforehand?... ..

Well I am not in any debt

but rather involved in a court case against someone who sold us a house with mold and roof problems that they never told us about. Now our association is fixing it and will cost tens of thousands of euros. So we are seeking compensation from the sellers. They say they don't have the money to pay and they may enter this 'velkajärjestely'. Meanwhile their new house is paid (thanks to us) they have some cash in the bank and drive a late model car. But as they are no longer working they say they can't afford to fully compensate us. I just want to know how easy or difficult it is to get 'velkajärjestely' . They want us to accept a low sum of money out of court because they are trying to make us scared we won't get any money if they enter 'velkajärjestely' even if they lose the case and are forced to pay.

Rick1 · Post by **Rick1** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:17 pm

Well Velkajärjestely (chapter 11) is not good for you. This means they can keep you away for a long time especially if there are more people in line and before you.

Mölkky-Fan · Post by **Mölkky-Fan** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:18 pm

OK, good news that you are not in debt...

You have to go through a lawyer or at least legal representation... it will be well worth it if the bills are so high. But who knows how many other debtors they have in line with their hands out?

We had a similar problem with our house, we thought we had a leak and we know his company is bust... but luckily the leak turned out not to be a leak... just a stain from a prior overflow.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:02 pm

guyver1000 wrote:
Rip wrote: Yes I guess I was referring to 'velkajärjestely'. I want to know the rules on which it is granted and what is protected from the debtors. Say I own a car worth 20000€. Can the court demand that it is sold to pay back a debt? I guess I just need to find the law wriiten somewhere.

The text of the law in English is here:
http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokset ... 930057.pdf

My understanding is that one could keep a car only if it is truly needed for employment purposes, and even then it would likely be argued that at least they could swap it to a cheaper one. Cash in the bank would belong to debtors (and if it suddenly vanishes, that would be reason not to grant "velkajärjestely") A house is a trickier thing, but it would not be categorically protected.

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