Finnish Europe's Oldest Language

[buldozr]

So does it translate then - would you say Michael Jackson is a djadja kartofka

What, a perunasetä?
No, there is no candy-uncle in Russian. We were just told to distrust an "alien uncle" (you know, the little green one who would invite you to share a ride in his saucer ).

[Rob A.]

With the uralo-altaic language family largely (but not completely) in dispute and tantalizing yet inconclusive evidence linking uralic and indo-European languages, I think it's a bit early to single out Finnish as the oldest language in Europe when its relation to other language families in this continent is still murky.

I'd settle for most unique language of Europe though.

Hi Københavner... Comment ça va???...

Well, unless someone finds something conclusive...it'll likely remain speculative until some future technologies, perhaps some kind of nano-technologies we can barely imagine, allows a whole new approach... But, will it be of any interest to anyone other than academics????.....

Now as to the most unique language of Europe?? Surely that would be euskara...

Euskarak inguruko hizkuntzekin milaka urteko harremana izan du, hasieran Iberiar penintsulako eta gaur egun Frantziari dagokion lurraldeko hizkuntza indoeuroparrarekin. Kristau Aroa hastean, latinarekin —erromatartzeak eta kristautzeak ekarria— eta, handik berehala, Erdi Aroko erromantze jaioberriekin (okzitaniera/gaskoiera, aragoiera edo nafar erromantze eta gaztelaniarekin)....

Don't ask me what it says...You're guess is probably as good as mine... The "borrowed" words are kind of obvious... but the rest... I just thought it would be nice to post something in euskara... Doesn't happen here too often...

[EP]

Now as to the most unique language of Europe?? Surely that would be euskara...

I think otso means "wolf" in Euskara. In Finnish it is one of the many names of a bear.

[Københavner]

With the uralo-altaic language family largely (but not completely) in dispute and tantalizing yet inconclusive evidence linking uralic and indo-European languages, I think it's a bit early to single out Finnish as the oldest language in Europe when its relation to other language families in this continent is still murky.

I'd settle for most unique language of Europe though.

Hi Københavner... Comment ça va???...

Well, unless someone finds something conclusive...it'll likely remain speculative until some future technologies, perhaps some kind of nano-technologies we can barely imagine, allows a whole new approach... But, will it be of any interest to anyone other than academics????.....

Now as to the most unique language of Europe?? Surely that would be euskara...

Euskarak inguruko hizkuntzekin milaka urteko harremana izan du, hasieran Iberiar penintsulako eta gaur egun Frantziari dagokion lurraldeko hizkuntza indoeuroparrarekin. Kristau Aroa hastean, latinarekin —erromatartzeak eta kristautzeak ekarria— eta, handik berehala, Erdi Aroko erromantze jaioberriekin (okzitaniera/gaskoiera, aragoiera edo nafar erromantze eta gaztelaniarekin)....

Don't ask me what it says...You're guess is probably as good as mine... The "borrowed" words are kind of obvious... but the rest... I just thought it would be nice to post something in euskara... Doesn't happen here too often...

Just so-so. With the forum software upgrade, it had the expected effect of shutting me out of Finland Forum during my peak surfing time: at work. So I can only drop by when I'm surfing at home which is much less often.

As for the Basque language, if linguists can finally link it to some Caucasian languages as they've been trying to do for a while, it will become much less unique!

[Rob A.]

Just so-so. With the forum software upgrade, it had the expected effect of shutting me out of Finland Forum during my peak surfing time: at work. So I can only drop by when I'm surfing at home which is much less often.

As for the Basque language, if linguists can finally link it to some Caucasian languages as they've been trying to do for a while, it will become much less unique!

Yeah...I'm expecting to run into those kinds of problems with the office network at some point ...so far, so good, though...

But, yes, I've heard some of the theories about the Basque language... At one time links were suggest with Etruscan and or Illyrian languages...but I don't know what the "linguistic consensus" is these days...

[Mangrove]

Modern Finnish seems to be pretty close to +4000 years old Proto-Uralic when judging with few words like these. Seems like Finnish has preserved the archaic form of words better than Samoyedic languages. First the reconstructed PU word and then the same in modern Finnish.
http://www.sgr.fi/susa/92/hakkinen.pdf (Kantauralin ajoitus ja paikannus: perustelut puntarissa)
http://helda.helsinki.fi/handle/10224/4045 (Uralilaisen kantakielen sanastosta)

"To live"
*elä- = elää

"Liver"
*mikså = maksa

"Nest"
*pesä = pesä

"Sun, day, heat"
*päjwä = päivä

"Eye"
*śilmä = silmä

[tuulen]

I'd give Basque the title. Finnish is ancient though, as you can trace loan words back a thousand years to extinct languages.

Speaking of Basque and of Finnish, as ancient...

Apparently the Finnish and the Saami languages are related, as a comparison of them could show, and modern genetic science has discovered an apparent link between the Saami and the Basque. However, it is the female Saami which apparently have the Basque genetic connection, while male Saami show a more eastern, more at Uralic, origin. So, in regard to the Saami, the theory is that at some point in time East merged with West, or Uralic merged with Basque, a long time ago. Indeed, the Saami are considered to be an ancient race, perhaps several thousand years old, and perhaps much older than that, perhaps even older than the latest Ice Age. Moreover, the similarities between the Finnish and the Saami languages are obvious, and so it appears fair to say that the origin of the Finnish language is very old.

The Finns and the Saami are not related to each other, but their languages are related.

Edit: An editorial change of one word occurred, which could have been left alone but was changed into "proper" English.

[llewellyn]

Very interesting article below though this DNA stuff is not the easiest of things to read... It seems to support the idea of population continuity in the Baltic and Nordic region as opposed to the traditional linguistics based migration centred theories:

http://www.mankindquarterly.org/samples ... rected.pdf

[Rob A.]

Very interesting article below though this DNA stuff is not the easiest of things to read... It seems to support the idea of population continuity in the Baltic and Nordic region as opposed to the traditional linguistics based migration centred theories:

http://www.mankindquarterly.org/samples ... rected.pdf

Linking genetics, culture and linguistics seems now to be in the realm of "pseudo-science".....there are, of course, "relationships" between these things, but they are not as tight as "popular culture" or "nationalists" would like to think they are....

Here's a link to a paper written by a Finnish linguist:

http://www.mv.helsinki.fi/home/jphakkin/Uralic.html

....and here's an excerpt:

"The origin of people is rather a multileveled and constantly changing puzzle, where the object of study is not identical neither in genetic, cultural nor linguistic level with the "same" people thousand years ago. The genetic roots of Finns lead to many differing directions, and the same goes with cultural roots. Yet our language is quite a late newcomer from east.

There is no contradiction in such a view, because the components of the origin are not interdependent: they function at totally different levels and thus even cannot contradict with each other. That someone has dark skin, does not automatically mean that his mother tongue could not be Finnish. Language, genes and culture do not actually meet at any level - they meet only in the artificial concept of "people" we use.

This is the very reason why every scholar who understands the origin of certain people as a one coherent object of study is automatically misled. There are many origins and they are totally independent. There is no way to solve the absolute origin of people, because there is no absolute origin at all. By linguistic study we reach only the linguistic origin, by genetic study only the origin of certain genetic feature and by archaeological study only the origin of certain feature of material culture."

The process of comparing languages can be quite painstaking....and despite the great efforts of professional linguists, there is no compelling evidence that Basque is linked to any other language, let alone Finnish... Maybe the extinct language, Etruscan...or maybe some Illyrian language...though the consensus now is that Albanian is related though far back, to other Indo-European languages....

Oh...and just to give you "mystical types" some hope, the Etruscan word for mother is believed to be ati....Hmmmmm, do I see a connection???....

[Mölkky-Fan]

English must be the earliest language.

Everyone knows from Hollywood that the cavemen had basic shoes and boots made of skins, and they just said 'ugg' a lot.

Nowadays Australian English still uses the word Ugg for similar types of footwear.

You surely cannot fault this logic?!

[Mangrove]

Apart from the ancient nature words it just came to my mind Finnish has also kept its agricultural nature. For example:

"EU-johtajat puivat Kreikan tilannetta".

[Jaskahko]

Is Finnish an archaic language?
http://www.mv.helsinki.fi/home/jphakkin ... innish.pdf