Where can I get Finnish flashcards?

[tuulen]

...From Start to Finnish
Learn Finnish in 60 minutes (didn't work )
Teach Yourself Finnish book and CD...

IMO, you could throw the Teach Yourself Finnish book into the rubbish, and never miss it.

From Start to Finnish is one of Leila White's texts. I have no experience with it, but at the moment I am working my way through A Grammar Book of Finnish, also by Leila White, and it is a great book. So, the odds are that From Start to Finnish is a worthwhile book, too.

Grammar is not hard to study. Yes, you will need to learn about the meaning of such grammatical terms as noun, verb, adjective and adverb, etc., but they are easy to learn, indeed, you probably already know them. However, because there is a night and day difference between Finnish and English, a study of grammar really can help you to understand just how the Finnish language works. For instance, you could know the meaning of ten thousand Finnish words, but without a working knowledge of Finnish grammar you could not form a single sentence, or ask a single question, and that is the reality. Indeed, without a working knowledge of Finnish grammar you might not be able to find a Finnish word in a dictionary. That is, and quite unlike English, when you learn a Finnish word you are learning not one but two things, firstly, the meaning of that word, and secondly, the "root" spelling of that word. And, without the root spelling a Finnish dictionary is worthless!

So, take the time, make the effort, and get on with a study of Finnish grammar, please! After that, it all begins to fall into place.

[onkko]

Grammar is not hard to study. Yes, you will need to learn about the meaning of such grammatical terms as noun, verb, adjective and adverb, etc., but they are easy to learn, indeed, you probably already know them. However, because there is a night and day difference between Finnish and English, a study of grammar really can help you to understand just how the Finnish language works. For instance, you could know the meaning of ten thousand Finnish words, but without a working knowledge of Finnish grammar you could not form a single sentence, or ask a single question, and that is the reality. Indeed, without a working knowledge of Finnish grammar you might not be able to find a Finnish word in a dictionary. That is, and quite unlike English, when you learn a Finnish word you are learning not one but two things, firstly, the meaning of that word, and secondly, the "root" spelling of that word. And, without the root spelling a Finnish dictionary is worthless!

So, take the time, make the effort, and get on with a study of Finnish grammar, please! After that, it all begins to fall into place.

http://www.ling.helsinki.fi/~fkarlsso/genkau2.html <- that scary

[tuulen]

http://www.ling.helsinki.fi/~fkarlsso/genkau2.html <- that scary

Yes, the limits of Finnish grammar can be downright scary! However, the Chinese say that a journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step, and so it goes with Finnish grammar, the point being that Cloudberry or any other English speaker does well to first understand the mechanics of just how the Finnish language works. Yes, some of the grammatical details are outrageously complex, although most of the details could be easy to understand, but all of those details must be understood for a person to make progress with the Finnish language.

So, get on with a study of Finnish grammar, for there simply is no other way to learn Finnish. In Finnish, words without grammar go nowhere!

BTW, onkko is right. A single Finnish word could be spelled in literally hundreds of ways, depending on the specific meaning of the word.

[AldenG]

http://www.ling.helsinki.fi/~fkarlsso/genkau2.html <- that scary

It highlights the limits of a tabular approach to reaching what is really a cognitive process of speaking and recognizing Finnish.

[Pursuivant]

Grammar is quite formidable, even in school we needed to learn it over and over and over...

[AldenG]

How long have you been in Finland? Can you describe what you know of Finnish already? Have you learned any other languages? How long will it be before you can start classes?

I might be able to assemble a bit of material you could use in the interim if I can get an idea of the right level.

I've only been here for two months, I know some numbers, days of the week and some random vocab. I've never learned any other languages and I don't know how long it will be before I can start classes - maybe April or May? I do have a reasonable understanding of Finnish pronounciations and I alreaday have the following resources:

From Start to Finnish
Learn Finnish in 60 minutes (didn't work )
Teach Yourself Finnish book and CD

I try to read the papers whenever they arrive through the mail slot, I read the brochures too. I fail miserably at the supermarket often having to ask passersby what things are which is really frustrating (like breadcrumbs - I really thought the word "leipä" would have been in there!). I'm highly motivated to learn but I am now worried that the vocab approach is a waste of time and I think getting hold of some phrases on flashcards is the way to go. I'm a very visual learner so reading straight from books can be tiresome hence the idea of flashcards.

OK, I'll shoot for this coming weekend to get some conversation exercises together for you. I'll think "bright beginner." It's ideal if you can do them with your husband (or another Finn or linguistically reliable "sparring partner") but it should also work to do some individual practice where you go back and forth questioning and answering yourself. The first go-round may turn out to be just right or it may be a little simple. But if the approach proves to be compatible with you, we'll quickly get into some appropriately challenging material.

[Cloudberry]

I fail miserably at the supermarket often having to ask passersby what things are which is really frustrating (like breadcrumbs - I really thought the word "leipä" would have been in there!)

http://www.dlc.fi/~marianna/gourmet/i_f ... m#br_crumb


Homework task to be completed by next Wednesday:

Print all these lists and memorise them:
http://www.dlc.fi/~marianna/gourmet/gl_fish.htm

Actually those lists are far from perfect: some oddities in the English and in the Finnish and some omissions but better than nothing. (I also have an excel spreadsheet which is pretty much the same, I can email you a copy if you can't print those lists)

Thanks penelope! what a great resource! I'd love to have the spreadsheet (I'll PM you my email address) that way I can take it with me to the supermarket. How wonderful it will be to be more in control of my shopping experience LOL I notice from the list that sour cream listed as "hapatettu kerma" I've been getting 'kerma villi' - is that the same thing or have I been buying the wrong thing?

[Cloudberry]

BTW, onkko is right. A single Finnish word could be spelled in literally hundreds of ways, depending on the specific meaning of the word.

Yes that's what's frustrating. I try reading the newspaper and looking words up in the Finnish/English dictionary but most cannot be found because they are not in thier root form. It's really frustrating. The same goes for letters we get in the mail. Google translator just spews out garbage sentences that make no sense. We end up having to make a trip to whoever sent us the letter and asking them to translate it

OK, I'll shoot for this coming weekend to get some conversation exercises together for you. I'll think "bright beginner." It's ideal if you can do them with your husband (or another Finn or linguistically reliable "sparring partner") but it should also work to do some individual practice where you go back and forth questioning and answering yourself. The first go-round may turn out to be just right or it may be a little simple. But if the approach proves to be compatible with you, we'll quickly get into some appropriately challenging material.

Thanks AldenG that'd be awesome

[EP]

I notice from the list that sour cream listed as "hapatettu kerma" I've been getting 'kerma villi' - is that the same thing or have I been buying the wrong thing?

Yes, you have been buying the wrong thing. But it does not say "hapatettu kerma" in the jars. It says "smetana" or "creme fraiche", and those you buy when you want sour cream.

"Kermaviili" is eaten with cinnamon or jam, but usually people use it for different salad dressings.

[Cloudberry]

I notice from the list that sour cream listed as "hapatettu kerma" I've been getting 'kerma villi' - is that the same thing or have I been buying the wrong thing?

Yes, you have been buying the wrong thing. But it does not say "hapatettu kerma" in the jars. It says "smetana" or "creme fraiche", and those you buy when you want sour cream.

"Kermaviili" is eaten with cinnamon or jam, but usually people use it for different salad dressings.

OMG no wonder it tasted like crap on our nachos

So you're saying it comes in a jar? or is in a plastic tub just like the kerma villi? I have asked different Finnish shoppers and they all seem confused about what I'm asking for when I say I want to buy "sour cream". I thought creme fraiche was something completely different. It has been suggested by a couple of people as possibly being the sour cream product I'm after. So confusing Actually, I've just done a forum search and found this thread with a comprehensive list of dairy products in Finland viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4260 (thanks penelope!!)

[tuulen]

BTW, onkko is right. A single Finnish word could be spelled in literally hundreds of ways, depending on the specific meaning of the word.

Yes that's what's frustrating. I try reading the newspaper and looking words up in the Finnish/English dictionary but most cannot be found because they are not in thier root form. It's really frustrating. The same goes for letters we get in the mail. Google translator just spews out garbage sentences that make no sense. We end up having to make a trip to whoever sent us the letter and asking them to translate it

A study of Finnish grammar does two important things, 1) grammar teaches how to take a word from a dictionary and then "build" that word into the exact word you need, and 2), grammar also teaches how to "reduce" a word into its "root" form, which could then be found in a dictionary.

Generally, the grammar required to form simple sentences and simple questions is fairly easy to get a grip on, but the grammar does become more complicated when you reach for more difficult sentences and questions. So, start with the simple, and then explore the more difficult. The good news is that Finnish is very consistent in its grammatical rules, having only a minimum of exceptions to the rules.

[EP]

Well, not jar. Smetana and creme fraiche are right where kermaviili is, usually right next to it. Smetana is stronger tasting Russian type, creme fraiche has milder taste. For nacho dip, creme fraiche.

[pseudo]

without a knowledge of the grammar, vocabulary is all but useless

Well... how fast one learns a new language depends upon which method one chooses and of course how much one enjoys learning it. According to you, knowing grammar first helps learn the language. It's true in a sense but your above statement is far from the truth. Let's repeat the sentence here with all the grammar intact- "without a knowledge of the grammar, vocabulary is all but useless"

Now without grammar- "without knowledge grammar, vocabulary have not use"

now try that without vocabulary .....

For instance, you could know the meaning of ten thousand Finnish words, but without a working knowledge of Finnish grammar you could not form a single sentence

Ask an average Finn what's partitive? or ask him to explain why it's nauti elämästä? not otherwise?

What's wrong with broken Finnish for a beginner? or even for intermediate speaker/user of the foreign language?

[pseudo]

I try reading the newspaper and looking words up in the Finnish/English dictionary but most cannot be found because they are not in thier root form.

How about just guessing the words and trying to get a gist of what's been written and looking only those words up which you encounter frequently... believe me your vocabulary will skyrocket this way and at the same time... you will gain much greater understanding of usages of grammar than just practicing grammar exercises. Well, at least it has worked for me.

[tuulen]

...For instance, you could know the meaning of ten thousand Finnish words, but without a working knowledge of Finnish grammar you could not form a single sentence

Ask an average Finn what's partitive? or ask him to explain why it's nauti elämästä? not otherwise?...

It seems that children learn their first language, and sometimes learn more than one first language, simply by being around adult speakers, all without learning a single rule of grammar, at least not formally. However, being a child is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and after that the rules of grammar are routinely used for teaching a language to adults. Yet, there are different "levels" of grammar. For instance, most student texts use simplified grammar, which is correct grammar but is reduced to easily managed concepts, but then there are professional linguists who often use such complex grammatical terms as to leave the average person's head spinning, way beyond anything a student could need!

Some languages have a relatively simple grammar, such that words often need only be put into a correct order in order to form correct statements and questions, but other languages are based on complex grammatical rules, such as Finnish, and it seems that learning some simple grammatical terms could be a small price to pay in order to help sort out all of the grammatical rules of Finnish. Even there, however, it is not necessary to remember the grammatical terms once the language concepts have been understood, and so the effort required to learn some grammatical terms need only be temporary. Learning a bit of basic grammar simply helps to make learning Finnish easier, IMO.