Finnish sauna, in America

[tuulen]

Some previous sauna threads, just in case you'd possibly find something useful in them: Saunas and housing!!

Apparently it is traditional for a sauna to be built before a house or any other building, and that makes sense because it seems to be a fairly small building which does not need much of a foundation, and it has heat. For short term use such as a vacation it could serve as a house.

[Jukka Aho]

Apparently it is traditional for a sauna to be built before a house or any other building

Was, at least. In modern Finnish architecture, the sauna is basically just another room in the house. It is usually placed next to the bathroom (shower/washing room), as would be logical and convenient. The entrance/exit to/from the sauna is most often via the bathroom (shower room) as well.

Not to say separate sauna buildings aren't still being built, but they require a yard - and preferably not the tiniest one - so they're a more typical feature of the older rural dwellings in sparsely populated areas... and at summer cottages. Old rural farmhouses have usually been retrofitted with an "indoors" sauna by this day and age... leaving the separate sauna building in a secondary role; mainly for summertime use. Many of the "separates" have no heating and no running water, which makes them rather inconvenient for year-round use. (Then how do you wash up if there's no running water? There's usually a large wood-burning sauna cauldron with a fireplace on its own, or a smaller water tank attached to the sauna heater for heating up the water. You mix cold and hot water in a vat or in a bucket and wash yourself using a ladle.)

Most summer cottage designs integrate the sauna under the same roof with the living quarters as well. Sometimes the entrance to the washing room (and by that way also to the steam room) is separate from the entrance to the living quarters, though... with both entrances leading to a shared wood-floored front porch. Obviously, this design, too, is best suited for summer-only use.

Houses which incorporate a sauna under the same roof with the living quarters and which have been designed with a wood-burning sauna heater in mind would normally place the steam room next to the brick chimney, of course... and the same chimney would often be shared with a fireplace in an adjacent room. (Of course, if there are multiple fireplaces, all "using the same chimney", they all actually have their own, separate ducts in the chimney.)

Sometimes a separate sauna building is just a sauna (the steam room... and that's it.) Sometimes the sauna building incorporates a washing room as well. Sometimes there's a steam room and a dressing room: washing needs to be done in the steam room. Sometimes it's a steam room, a washing room and a third room with a fireplace and a table, and perhaps a bed, too... which could be described as being a more spacey, multi-purpose dressing room, but which is also approaching a simple summer cottage. Sometimes the building is in the yard, sometimes it is located by a body of water, and there's a pier for swimmers.

As for modern detached homes/houses and their integrated saunas, sometimes they're located in the basement, sometimes in the attic, sometimes on the living floors, sometimes in the middle of the house, and sometimes at the perimeter of the house... with an outside wall and a window on their own. Sometimes the sauna has been designed from the get-go to be just where it is currently located, sometimes it is something converted and retrofitted from a spare room, sometimes the "incorporated" sauna is actually an additional wing built to the house as an afterthought, etc.

As for apartment blocks and row houses: sometimes the sauna is just another room in each apartment, sometimes it is a communal sauna shared by the residents in turns.

In old, rural smallholder setting, the sauna and the washing/dressing room often shared the same roof with the cowhouse or another outbuilding.

The variations are endless.

[Upphew]

Sometimes a separate sauna building is just a sauna (the steam room... and that's it.) Sometimes the sauna building incorporates a washing room as well. Sometimes there's a steam room and a dressing room: washing needs to be done in the steam room. Sometimes it's a steam room, a washing room and a third room with a fireplace and a table, and perhaps a bed, too... which could be described as being a more spacey, multi-purpose dressing room, but which is also approaching a simple summer cottage. Sometimes the building is in the yard, sometimes it is located by a body of water, and there's a pier for swimmers.

One gets the idea by looking some of the models from bigger log house manufacturers: Kontio, Honka or some other house kit manufacturer: Kastelli.

[tuulen]

I will remember to chill the beer and light the barbeque at the same time when I light the sauna stove. Great idea!

Why light the BBQ? Wrap the sausages in foil and lay them on the rocks on the stove.

Good thinking! Come to think of it, more than sausage could be cooked that way, chicken, fish, etc.

[onkko]

[CH]

It's the perfect place to dry laundry even when the sauna is cold.

Aha! I was wondering what else a sauna room could be good for when not in use, otherwise a great place to collect spider webs.

Just one word of warning... Do not dry any clothes above the stove! Well, if it is cold it would be ok, but I wouldn't get into the habit even then. Every now and then house fires are started here when somebody does that and the clothes drop down on a hot stove. Common sense isn't, apparently.

[peikkopaa]

Wood burning stoves have long been made in America, but I discovered that there are no sauna stove makers here. The only sauna stoves available here are imported from Finland, and apparently the best sauna stoves are made by Harvia Oy http://www.harvia.fi/

This looks like an awesome sauna stove, expensive but made in Minnesota.

http://www.lamppakuuma.com/

[Mölkky-Fan]

and do not leave your golf shoes to dry on the sauna stove

http://www.marioff.com/en/Media/News%20 ... fault.aspx

[tuulen]

Wood burning stoves have long been made in America, but I discovered that there are no sauna stove makers here. The only sauna stoves available here are imported from Finland, and apparently the best sauna stoves are made by Harvia Oy http://www.harvia.fi/

This looks like an awesome sauna stove, expensive but made in Minnesota.

http://www.lamppakuuma.com/

Interesting! I was not aware of any American made sauna stoves, but no surprise that they could come from Minnesota.

Apparently Minnesota has the highest per capita population of Finns in all of the US.

[Jukka Aho]

Why light the BBQ? Wrap the sausages in foil and lay them on the rocks on the stove.

Works for a quick fix of lenkki... but as an unwanted bonus, you’ll get a sauna that smells like sausage for a while. (At least if someone still decides to throw that one more ladleful on the rocks...)

[Tiwaz]

Yes, I understand the need for ventilation while a sauna is in use, and apparently there are a number of ways to do that. Mold is not a big problem here, but it can happen in a damp room, so some ventilation is necessary. Houses in this area depend on their heating systems to help keep them dry inside, especially during winter, and rooms which are closed off from the heat can develop a small amount of mildew.

Just remember that intake has to be low near the floor. There really isn't any other "proper" way to do it unless you want to either spend excessive amount of energy to heat it or have cool sauna.

Our cottage sauna gets intake from floor level and has extra vent up at the corner for purpose of letting out any excess heat for longer sessions. Hole in the floor acts also as drain for water (our cottage is between rustic and modern. Electricity exists but water runs only as fast as they guy carrying the bucket, thus washing takes place in actual sauna using... Buckets and similar.)

And as said, properly built sauna is not damp. Unless you wash in the actual sauna, there is very little dampness which could get there.

As for your sauna project... If you are building separate building, in cottage style, which is not heated you can simply leave permanently open holes near the bottom of the sauna like our cottage sauna.

Been there around 2 decades and no mildew or anything. Ever.
And no special ventilation either after use either, short of leaving door open to dressing room when we leave.

It's the perfect place to dry laundry even when the sauna is cold.

Aha! I was wondering what else a sauna room could be good for when not in use, otherwise a great place to collect spider webs.[/quote]

Very few spiders make mistake of making sauna home, those who do die. 80 celsius for prolonged time will kill any little buggers who make mistake of settling in.

[tuulen]

...Just remember that intake has to be low near the floor. There really isn't any other "proper" way to do it unless you want to either spend excessive amount of energy to heat it or have cool sauna.

There will be no electricity in the sauna building, and so I must design a "natural draft" ventilation system. I am planning to have at least one vent on the floor near the bottom of the stove, and then other vents, some high on the wall and some low on the wall, and each of the vents will have some way of opening and closing them. That helps to keep out birds, mice, etc.

Our cottage sauna gets intake from floor level and has extra vent up at the corner for purpose of letting out any excess heat for longer sessions. Hole in the floor acts also as drain for water (our cottage is between rustic and modern. Electricity exists but water runs only as fast as they guy carrying the bucket, thus washing takes place in actual sauna using... Buckets and similar.)
And as said, properly built sauna is not damp. Unless you wash in the actual sauna, there is very little dampness which could get there.

It has been suggested that a three-room sauna could work best, sauna, washroom and dressing room, and that is probably what I will do.

Very few spiders make mistake of making sauna home, those who do die. 80 celsius for prolonged time will kill any little buggers who make mistake of settling in.

There are millions of spiders here although most of them are very small, and they can get into almost anything.

[Jukka Aho]

There will be no electricity in the sauna building, and so I must design a "natural draft" ventilation system. I am planning to have at least one vent on the floor near the bottom of the stove, and then other vents, some high on the wall and some low on the wall, and each of the vents will have some way of opening and closing them. That helps to keep out birds, mice, etc.

Modern saunas – especially those integrated to a house and featuring insulation and paneling on the inside walls – usually employ aluminum foil (see here and here as well) as vapor barrier over the insulation material these days. Ventilation is through pipes and vents (see here as well), sometimes machine-assisted, sometimes not. Some related links: click, click, click, click, click, click.

[tuulen]

...Modern saunas – especially those integrated to a house and featuring insulation and paneling on the inside walls – usually employ aluminum foil (see here and here as well) as vapor barrier over the insulation material these days...

Yes, putting water onto hot rocks will create humidity, and it is better to have vents to help keep the sauna room dry while using a vapor barrier to help keep the room's insulation dry. Aluminum foil sheet is probably more durable than plastic sheet, especially over time.

Then again, if a sauna room got hot enough then perhaps plastic sheet could melt.

[Tiwaz]

Regarding your vents. I think you can drop the middle one safely, as it will not be very useful overall.

Best arrangement I know is to have incoming air come from as low as possible, like commonly in Finland beneath the door, and another as high up as possible to help remove excess heat.

Add more vents and there is real possibility of ending up with screwed up airflow.

Top vent should have airflow go out, because else you might end up having cold air rush in if some quirk of construction causes for example middle vent to become exit. Not very comfortable.

Or you might end up with air rotation between low and middle vents cooling your feet while your head is boiling.

It is not only because of personal comfort, but because hot air can have much more moisture in it compared to cold air. So if you want to dry up your sauna faster, you should have fast airflow of hot top air out balanced out with cold air coming in at floor level.
It warms up, ties up moisture as it rises towards the roof and evacuates from top taking moisture out.



Oh yeah, and always when leaving sauna fill up the stove with big chunks of wood. Not small. Purpose is to help sauna dry up by providing heat for prolonged time.