*** Tax Training for the Self-Employed***
Re: *** Tax Training for the Self-Employed***
Right, it's tomorrow! My name's Jason. I have short, dark hair and I'll be wearing a brown top, blue jeans and a grey jacket - if any of you spot me, please come up and say hi. Hope to make your acquaintance
Re: *** Tax Training for the Self-Employed***
OK... I'll look out for you.
I haven't decided what to wear tomorrow yet
But I'll be working in the morning so might not be in jeans. If I remember, I'll wear a red scarf - I have short brown hair and glasses with brown frames and I'll probably have a black briefcase.
See you there then.
I haven't decided what to wear tomorrow yet
But I'll be working in the morning so might not be in jeans. If I remember, I'll wear a red scarf - I have short brown hair and glasses with brown frames and I'll probably have a black briefcase.See you there then.
Re: *** Tax Training for the Self-Employed***
I unfortunately had a last minute situation which prevented me to join you guys.
Penelope, Jason, how was it? Did you have an interesting session?
Penelope, Jason, how was it? Did you have an interesting session?
Re: *** Tax Training for the Self-Employed***
The room was full, probably 40 people there. The lecturer seems to know his stuff and his English is fine. I think he was a bit nervous but he eventually relaxed and even cracked a joke or two. There were some handouts - mostly stuff off vero.fi. Anyway, he definitely has an accounting background (the course I went to in Lahti was a waste of time because the lecturer had no clue about VAT or bookkeeping).
He did start off by asking how many people already had a Tmi/Oy and when he realised that nearly everyone was already in business he adjusted his presentation a bit, skipping some of the basics and getting on to the VAT and the bookkeeping. He is happy to answer questions as we go along which is probably the best thing about the session. Some of the questions have been helpful, the audience is very diverse, people doing all kinds of stuff both as Tmi and Oys, also export sales (IT stuff) and importing from abroad.
We looked at the monthly VAT return and deductible expenses (transport, meetings, entertaining, telephone expenses etc). I had a question about deductible home office expenses but he will answer that next week. Next Monday we will also look at the annual accounts (year-end closing the books).
At the beginning, when I saw the slides, I thought it was going to be too simple. But it was actually quite useful, the Q&As are interesting and I will probably go back next week.
I actually did my VAT return on-line last night - for the FIRST TIME! Usually we just scribble the numbers on the form and post it (and usually we're late!)
We finished just before 19.00.
He did start off by asking how many people already had a Tmi/Oy and when he realised that nearly everyone was already in business he adjusted his presentation a bit, skipping some of the basics and getting on to the VAT and the bookkeeping. He is happy to answer questions as we go along which is probably the best thing about the session. Some of the questions have been helpful, the audience is very diverse, people doing all kinds of stuff both as Tmi and Oys, also export sales (IT stuff) and importing from abroad.
We looked at the monthly VAT return and deductible expenses (transport, meetings, entertaining, telephone expenses etc). I had a question about deductible home office expenses but he will answer that next week. Next Monday we will also look at the annual accounts (year-end closing the books).
At the beginning, when I saw the slides, I thought it was going to be too simple. But it was actually quite useful, the Q&As are interesting and I will probably go back next week.
I actually did my VAT return on-line last night - for the FIRST TIME! Usually we just scribble the numbers on the form and post it (and usually we're late!)
We finished just before 19.00.
Re: *** Tax Training for the Self-Employed***
I'm not entirely sure. I didn't really learn a lot from it (I think the guy was assuming some of us wouldn't yet have a company, despite that being a prerequisite for signing up) and there was an annoying guy who kept asking silly questions the whole time and arguing about how many seats you had to have in a car for it to be an allowable business expense. A few people like myself seemed to have had companies for quite a number of years, but some of the others seemed to be just looking for cheap tricks and tax dodges in order to get stuff for free (or at least, buy cars and TVs and claim them as a business expense). In that sense, the overall feeling wasn't too encouraging, but was otherwise fine.
As for the lecturer, he was a nervous-seeming accountant who gave the impression that this was his first time doing such a thing, at least in English. There were a lot of pauses and long moments of silence. Although he was an accountant and seemed to know his stuff, he skipped very quickly through the new verotili section, which was a shame as it is new, and none of us really know how to use it - a practical example might have been nice. Despite being a headline aspect in the course outline, it was dealt with very superficially, at least as far as I was concerned.
Overall, I did learn some useful things, but I wasted three hours in that place for some information that I could summarise here in about six lines (your mileage may vary, of course, because I've had my toiminimi for four years already and have already know most of what he was discussing, while others there were fairly new to it, so I'm sure it was more useful for them). There was a lot of focus on things like car allowances and claiming the kilometre journeys, which is useless to me, and nothing at all about how to claim the various aspects of a home office, which would have been very useful. I'm going to raise these at next week's session, as is Penelope (who is a delightful lady, by the way).
Here's a quick summary of the notes I made, for the points which were personally most useful to me or which clarified things I'd been confused about (I'm also going to email my thoughts as outlined above to the guy giving the course, and see if he'll give me a copy of his PowerPoint presentation). These are more or less in the order I wrote them, as opposed to any logical structure:
- how to properly complete a maksumuistutus and hyvityslasku if you've invoiced the wrong amount
- the importance if your customer is registered in the ennakkoperintarekisteri (prepayment register, ytj.fi) for invoicing, because otherwise you take 13% of the bill and pay it directly to Vero, and the remaining 87% to the customer
- VAT rises to 23% on the 1st of July (I had asked this at the tax office and the girl there just stared at me blankly)
- food and drink (excluding alcohol) are never a deductible cost for a toiminimi (oops!)
- how to properly fill in the monthly tax return form, including how to add tax deductions and where to put the value of items bought from EU countries
- some stuff about deciding what's a business expense and what's a personal cost (or an employee benefit if you have an OY)
There was of course much more; again, these are just the things that were clarified for me, personally. Who else was there and where were you sitting? I was the guy in the brown top and white sleeves, just to the left of the annoying chap with all the questions about how many seats you're allowed in a car. Hopefully we'll see more of each other next week!
As for the lecturer, he was a nervous-seeming accountant who gave the impression that this was his first time doing such a thing, at least in English. There were a lot of pauses and long moments of silence. Although he was an accountant and seemed to know his stuff, he skipped very quickly through the new verotili section, which was a shame as it is new, and none of us really know how to use it - a practical example might have been nice. Despite being a headline aspect in the course outline, it was dealt with very superficially, at least as far as I was concerned.
Overall, I did learn some useful things, but I wasted three hours in that place for some information that I could summarise here in about six lines (your mileage may vary, of course, because I've had my toiminimi for four years already and have already know most of what he was discussing, while others there were fairly new to it, so I'm sure it was more useful for them). There was a lot of focus on things like car allowances and claiming the kilometre journeys, which is useless to me, and nothing at all about how to claim the various aspects of a home office, which would have been very useful. I'm going to raise these at next week's session, as is Penelope (who is a delightful lady, by the way).
Here's a quick summary of the notes I made, for the points which were personally most useful to me or which clarified things I'd been confused about (I'm also going to email my thoughts as outlined above to the guy giving the course, and see if he'll give me a copy of his PowerPoint presentation). These are more or less in the order I wrote them, as opposed to any logical structure:
- how to properly complete a maksumuistutus and hyvityslasku if you've invoiced the wrong amount
- the importance if your customer is registered in the ennakkoperintarekisteri (prepayment register, ytj.fi) for invoicing, because otherwise you take 13% of the bill and pay it directly to Vero, and the remaining 87% to the customer
- VAT rises to 23% on the 1st of July (I had asked this at the tax office and the girl there just stared at me blankly)
- food and drink (excluding alcohol) are never a deductible cost for a toiminimi (oops!)
- how to properly fill in the monthly tax return form, including how to add tax deductions and where to put the value of items bought from EU countries
- some stuff about deciding what's a business expense and what's a personal cost (or an employee benefit if you have an OY)
There was of course much more; again, these are just the things that were clarified for me, personally. Who else was there and where were you sitting? I was the guy in the brown top and white sleeves, just to the left of the annoying chap with all the questions about how many seats you're allowed in a car. Hopefully we'll see more of each other next week!
Last edited by filecore on Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: *** Tax Training for the Self-Employed***
How is it to fill in, what boxes do you need to complete, etc? I'm hoping it's literally just the electronic equivalent of the paper form. Is there anything additional you need to provide? And so on.penelope wrote:I actually did my VAT return on-line last night
Re: *** Tax Training for the Self-Employed***
Thank you both for your detailed answers.
Jason, if by any chance you can get the power point presentation, I would really appreciate if you could send it to me.
Jason, if by any chance you can get the power point presentation, I would really appreciate if you could send it to me.
Re: *** Tax Training for the Self-Employed***
If I get a copy, I'll upload it somewhere and post a link here (as I've been doing with the Uusyrityskeskus documents).
Re: *** Tax Training for the Self-Employed***
I sent the yrityshelsinki team an email, apologizing for not being able to make it yesterday. They kindly sent me the power point presentation so I'm up to date for next week.
You can dowload it from here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1247918/YritysHelsinki_1204.pdf
You can dowload it from here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1247918/YritysHelsinki_1204.pdf
Re: *** Tax Training for the Self-Employed***
Maybe next Monday we could meet for coffee before (or after) and compare notes. I was in a hurry yesterday and arrived just as it was starting but next week I won't be in a rush.
The on-line VAT was even simpler than the form he showed. I had only a couple of boxes to fill in. The tricky part is logging in because you have a user ID and a password and then it asks you for a key (like on-line banking: you need to have a list of code numbers and the system prompts you for one of them). When you're done with your form it gives you a viite number with which you can make your payment.
But it was a simple month, in February I didn't have many expenses, just some income, and I hadn't bought any zero-rated books from the UK
The ice-cream business in the summer will be more complicated (not least of all because we don't have an internet connection at the mökki). And the VAT rate will go up bang in the middle of the ice-cream season 
I thought most of the questions being asked were quite legit. If you have a pizza restaurant you would need to know if you can get a VAT refund on the purchase of a delivery vehicule and what the criteria are for doing it. Same with the wall-mounted TV in the takeaway kebab/Chinese/pizza kitchen (I thought it was a good question). But being an accountant he can't give a yes/no answer because... well... it depends... and Vero won't give you a Y/N answer either
And most bookkeepers are pretty naff at dealing with the borderline expenses because, quite frankly, it's not their cash going to Vero.
PS: Thanks for saying I'm delightful (you are too 
)
So, was that Mook? Or just someone who looks like Mook's avatar?
The on-line VAT was even simpler than the form he showed. I had only a couple of boxes to fill in. The tricky part is logging in because you have a user ID and a password and then it asks you for a key (like on-line banking: you need to have a list of code numbers and the system prompts you for one of them). When you're done with your form it gives you a viite number with which you can make your payment.
But it was a simple month, in February I didn't have many expenses, just some income, and I hadn't bought any zero-rated books from the UK
The ice-cream business in the summer will be more complicated (not least of all because we don't have an internet connection at the mökki). And the VAT rate will go up bang in the middle of the ice-cream season I thought most of the questions being asked were quite legit. If you have a pizza restaurant you would need to know if you can get a VAT refund on the purchase of a delivery vehicule and what the criteria are for doing it. Same with the wall-mounted TV in the takeaway kebab/Chinese/pizza kitchen (I thought it was a good question). But being an accountant he can't give a yes/no answer because... well... it depends... and Vero won't give you a Y/N answer either
And most bookkeepers are pretty naff at dealing with the borderline expenses because, quite frankly, it's not their cash going to Vero.PS: Thanks for saying I'm delightful
(you are too )So, was that Mook? Or just someone who looks like Mook's avatar?
Re: *** Tax Training for the Self-Employed***
Depends. Which system are you using? I originally signed up for the Katso thing (lists of password codes, lots of stuff to remember) then discovered that I didn't need it - you can just go to the main Verotili page on vero.fi (or more specifically, this link) and log in with your personal banking identifiers. It's a lot easier than using Katso, but it may vary which is better depending on what type of company you have (TMI/OY).penelope wrote:The tricky part is logging in because you have a user ID and a password and then it asks you for a key (like on-line banking: you need to have a list of code numbers and the system prompts you for one of them). When you're done with your form it gives you a viite number with which you can make your payment.
As for the questions, sorry - they were legitimate for the most part, but I got a little bored of the repetition, particularly in the "two seats in the front" bit. Yes, point taken, point made, question answered, please stop going on about it now! I can have very little patience sometimes, but yes, it wasn't my personal tax advice session either, so I'll just keep quiet about it from now on...
Re: *** Tax Training for the Self-Employed***
Well, it's Sunday evening again. I'll be at the course again tomorrow, and hopefully able to go for a drink afterwards (Kaisla?), although I'm driving, so it'll have to be a boring drink. Here's hoping that it's more about Y5 and the verotili this week. See you all there - who among us is going?
Re: *** Tax Training for the Self-Employed***
I'll be there. Not working tomorrow, so I won't be late.