Illative case

[magenta22]

Can someone explain the illative case in simple form?
I've looked in my books and it starts to make sense until they babble on about something else

As an example - Talon and Taloon.

[EP]

Taloon is illative --> into the house

Talon is genitive ---> of the house "house´s"

[Jukka Aho]

Can someone explain the illative case in simple form?

The basic meaning is “into (something)” as EP said, or “to (some place)”.

Mies putosi kaivoon.
“A man fell into a well.”

Pakkasin ruokaostokseni muovipussiin.
“I packed my groceries into a plastic bag.”

Hän matkustaa Ranskaan huomenna.
“He will travel to France tomorrow.”

I've looked in my books and it starts to make sense until they babble on about something else :lol:

In addition to concrete usage, as above, most cases have abstract and idiomatic uses as well... comparable to the usage of the prepositions and the postpositions in English phrasal verbs.
 

[Rob A.]

Yes....as EP says, the illative carries the sense of "into" something....figuratively or conceptually....

The inessive...talossa ...being "in" the house in a kind of static state; and the allative...talolle movement "to" or "onto" the house...in the sense of up to or on the house....but not into it.... but of course, these distinctions can appear quite fuzzy or flexible particular in conceptual type situations....

Besides the genitive, talon can also be an accusative form, used when the house is a direct object of some action and is being thought of in an entire or complete sense....

{I see Jukka has gotten there ahead of me...but I'll add this anyway....)

[magenta22]

Thanks everyone, we got homework this week which was to put words into a sentence and some are in the illative case, which is fine except that we haven't really covered it in the lessons - just literally touched on it.

It looks like the ones that I have managed to put into sentences are right hoorah

[kalmisto]

the illative case :
http://www.uusikielemme.fi/illatiivi.html

the uusikielemme grammar main page :
http://www.uusikielemme.fi/grammar.html

[maxxfi]

I remember one of the grammar books that I happened to see
was representing all the locative cases as arrows around a cube
(pointing in, pointing towards, pointing outwards, hovering inside, hovering above, etc.)

Pretty good system to remember the cases, I have to admit

[DC21]

Out of interest, why do you "käy suihkussa" and not suikhuun?

[EP]

Käyn suihkussa = Menen suihkuun

[Rob A.]

Out of interest, why do you "käy suihkussa" and not suikhuun?

I suppose the flippant answer is because it's not a translation from English.... But... good question.... According to wiktionary it could be either inessive or adessive... I think it might have something to do with the sense of the verb, "käydä"....the idea of going somewhere and coming back... in this instance, "she/he visits in-shower (or at-shower)."

I wonder if some other verb is used then it would be "suihkuun"...."hän mennee suihkuun"..???.. {Corrections made]

Maybe a native speaker can provide some insights.....

And I'm now thinking about the sentence in English....I'm actually not sure in the sentence, "she/he goes to shower...", whether the word, "shower" is a noun or part of the verb infinitive... ....maybe it can be either....

[Edit: And I see EP has answered one of the questions....]

[EP]

hän mennee suihkuun"..???

If you mean "he goes to take a shower" it is hän menee suihkuun, only one n. If you say hän mennee suihkuun with two n´s it means that it is not sure if he goes to take a shower. It is just an assumption.

[Rob A.]

hän mennee suihkuun"..???

If you mean "he goes to take a shower" it is hän menee suihkuun, only one n. If you say hän mennee suihkuun with two n´s it means that it is not sure if he goes to take a shower. It is just an assumption.

Thanks EP.....remembering when to "double" consonants, and when not to, is a constant struggle.... I guess there is some underlying principle I still haven't fully absorbed... Proofreading the Finnish I write is also difficult...some of the typos I simply don't notice as easily as I usually can when proofreading English....

[DC21]

Out of interest, why do you "käy suihkussa" and not suikhuun?

I suppose the flippant answer is because it's not a translation from English.... But... good question.... According to wiktionary it could be either inessive or adessive... I think it might have something to do with the sense of the verb, "käydä"....the idea of going somewhere and coming back... in this instance, "she/he visits in-shower (or at-shower)."

I wonder if some other verb is used then it would be "suihkuun"...."hän mennee suihkuun"..???.. {Corrections made]

Maybe a native speaker can provide some insights.....

And I'm now thinking about the sentence in English....I'm actually not sure in the sentence, "she/he goes to shower...", whether the word, "shower" is a noun or part of the verb infinitive... ....maybe it can be either....

[Edit: And I see EP has answered one of the questions....]

It must be something to do with the way the verb is interpreted, because it applies to other places, not just the shower (eg visiting the shop is still hän käy kaupassa I believe). Maybe visit implies that you actually stay there and aren't just travelling there. Would be nice to get some imput from a native. I guess this is why literal translations don't work all that well with languages!

[Jukka Aho]

Out of interest, why do you "käy suihkussa" and not suikhuun?

the sense of the verb, "käydä"....the idea of going somewhere and coming back... in this instance, "she/he visits in-shower (or at-shower)."

Would be nice to get some imput from a native.

Well, as Rob already told above, one of the possible senses for the verb käydä is “going there, doing your business, and then coming back” and that’s what you mean when you say things like “Käyn kaupassa” or “Käyn suihkussa.” The “target” will be in the inessive (-ssa, -ssä) if you go inside that place. It could also be in the adessive (-lla, -llä) if the intended sense is more like “hanging around at the place”, or its immediate vicinity, but then coming back, or visiting the place, possibly for some other reason than the usual business.

For example:

Käyn kaupassa. = “I’ll pay a visit to the (grocery) store [to do some (grocery) shopping], then come back.”
Käyn suihkussa. = “I’ll take a shower, then come back.”
Käyn kirjastossa. = “I’ll visit the library [to do what people usually do in a library], then come back.”

A store-owner could say to his wife:

Käyn kaupalla. = “I’ll visit the store [maybe it’s parking lot only, to check if everything’s all right, or inside the office to fetch some papers], then come back.”

[Upphew]

Out of interest, why do you "käy suihkussa" and not suikhuun?

käy suihkussa vs. käy suihkuun
Visit shower/take shower vs. step, tread, pace, stride to shower
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/k%C3%A4yd%C3%A4

latter meaning is kind of archaic, but you might hear it when asked to come in (step in; käy sisään, käy peremmälle) or when talking about motors (does the motor run; käykö moottori), also horses' walk is hevosen käynti.