Näköala Haminalahdesta

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Rob A.
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Näköala Haminalahdesta

Post by Rob A. » Tue May 11, 2010 2:43 am

And here's a beautiful painting by the suomalainen taidemaalari, Ferdinand von Wright, which for me came with a little "language usage" reminder:

Image

The "reminder":

"Näköala Haminalahdesta", translates literally to English as, "A/The View from Hamina Bay".... which would imply one's view point is from a position standing or sitting....presumably in a boat, ...in the bay..... but in Finnish, it's the view coming to you from the bay.

A different perspective, and a reminder to try to "think in Finnish" as much as possible... The English title would have to be, "A/The View of Hamina Bay."...

There are a few other points I'm wondering about, too...such as why the title couldn't have been "Näköala Haminalahdelta".....but, enough for now; some other time....:D :D



Näköala Haminalahdesta

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Pursuivant
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Re: Näköala Haminalahdesta

Post by Pursuivant » Tue May 11, 2010 7:53 am

Because hamina means generally a "harbour" in archaic speech so instead of the Fredrick's Harbour, Hamina, its about harbour bay haminalahti. ;) There is also a bay in front of the city of Harbour so that would be Harbour's Bay. And as you know places don't follow the logics.
Last edited by Pursuivant on Tue May 11, 2010 9:46 am, edited 3 times in total.
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
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truth
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Re: Näköala Haminalahdesta

Post by truth » Tue May 11, 2010 9:32 am

@ Rob, you must be a researcher for wanting to know deeply about a language which has not definite rules. The exceptions are unlimited in the language. Good luck though.

Jukka Aho
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Re: Näköala Haminalahdesta

Post by Jukka Aho » Tue May 11, 2010 2:14 pm

Rob A. wrote:Näköala Haminalahdesta [...] There are a few other points I'm wondering about, too...such as why the title couldn't have been "Näköala Haminalahdelta".....but, enough for now; some other time....:D :D
Place names are tricky in that they can take both inner locative cases and outer locative cases and it’s really only the locals who know what they prefer. For example, Tampere is typically used in the outer locative cases (Tampereella, Tampereelle, Tampereelta) whereas Helsinki in the inner locative cases (Helsingissä, Helsingistä, Helsinkiin) – which is all fine and dandy since they’re basically “just names” so there’s no logic to them. But then you have places like Riihimäki (riihi = drying barn, mäki = hill, slope) where the locals prefer the inner locative cases (Riihimäessä, Riihimäestä, Riihimäkeen) whereas to outsiders, the outer locative cases (Riihimäellä, Riihimäeltä, Riihimäelle) would sound more natural since the word mäki is normally used in the outer locative cases. So the established compromise appears to be that both actually get used and are “allowed” in normal language.

Research Institute for the Languages of Finland maintains this list of Finnish municipalities and how their names should be inflected in cases. But there are probably hundreds or thousands local names of villages and smaller places or geographical features which are not on the list because they are not names of municipalities. (It’s a bit like the pronunciation of some English place names. Greenwich, Leicester, etc. You just can’t be sure simply by looking at the written form.)

Now, putting the difference between the inner locative cases and the outer locative cases aside, both interpretations about the vantage point are possible in Finnish. Näköala Haminalahdesta can mean either the vista of that place, radiating at you... or the opposite: the vantage point of the artist; the place where (s)he was sitting or standing while capturing his/her surroundings on the canvas. There’s no way to tell for sure which interpretation is the more appropriate one... unless you recognize the place or know the background story to that painting.

Näköala Haminalahdelle would be less ambiguous. Then it’s the view from the artist’s vantage point to the direction of Haminalahti.

• • •

As for titles of paintings, here’s the online catalog of the Finnish National Gallery. You might want to use the Finnish version, though, so you’d see more of the names in Finnish.

You can narrow down your searches by the type of the artwork (painting, graphics, drawing, photograph, sculpture etc.) and by the decade. For example, here are paintings from the 1890s that are in their collection. (Note: the site occasionally takes a long time to do the searches. You can switch from a text-only results list to a thumbnails view or to a single artwork view by clicking the icons ImageImageImage at the top-right corner of the list. Or search for other decades, or for other types of artwork.)
znark

Rob A.
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Re: Näköala Haminalahdesta

Post by Rob A. » Tue May 11, 2010 9:52 pm

Pursuivant wrote:Because hamina means generally a "harbour" in archaic speech so instead of the Fredrick's Harbour, Hamina, its about harbour bay haminalahti. ;) There is also a bay in front of the city of Harbour so that would be Harbour's Bay. And as you know places don't follow the logics.
....and to add to my confusion I found another work by the same artist, dated 1853...and it's title....Näköala Haminalahdelta, 1853....:D....the previous painint is from 1877...

Image

....Oh well...maybe it can be a subtle thing depending on proximity... I suppose native speakers can pick up very slight shades of meaning because of their years of using the language....subtleties that would forever go over the heads all but the most ardent non-native speakers...:D

Rob A.
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Re: Näköala Haminalahdesta

Post by Rob A. » Tue May 11, 2010 10:02 pm

Jukka Aho wrote:
• • •

As for titles of paintings, here’s the online catalog of the Finnish National Gallery. You might want to use the Finnish version, though, so you’d see more of the names in Finnish.

You can narrow down your searches by the type of the artwork (painting, graphics, drawing, photograph, sculpture etc.) and by the decade. For example, here are paintings from the 1890s that are in their collection. (Note: the site occasionally takes a long time to do the searches. You can switch from a text-only results list to a thumbnails view or to a single artwork view by clicking the icons ImageImageImage at the top-right corner of the list. Or search for other decades, or for other types of artwork.)
Muchos gracias....:D I've started looking at some of the images ....this looks like it will be fun for quite awhile.... Hugo Simberg is kind of intriguing.... with his well-known "Wounded Angel" work....and the following sketch jumped out at me...so mundane in spirit....death coming for the old peasant woman while she is still toiling away.... so sad ....

Kuolema ja perunankuorija = "Death and the Potato Peeler"

Image

EP
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Re: Näköala Haminalahdesta

Post by EP » Tue May 11, 2010 10:33 pm

Check out his "Death´s garden", It is in Tampere cathedral. It is, well, it is, something... There are skeletons gently smiling and taking care of plants.

Jukka Aho
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Location: Espoo, Finland

Re: Näköala Haminalahdesta

Post by Jukka Aho » Tue May 11, 2010 10:53 pm

Here’s a picture of it.
znark

Rob A.
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Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:51 am

Re: Näköala Haminalahdesta

Post by Rob A. » Wed May 12, 2010 2:30 am

Thanks.....an intriguing artist.... I'm not sure whether to put up one of these :) or one of these :( ....rather macacbre yet appealing.... :D

garoowood
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Re: Näköala Haminalahdesta

Post by garoowood » Thu May 13, 2010 1:22 am

Could it be A/The view about Hamina Bay.?


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