Hakaniemi - Disappointment

jtammilehto · Post by **jtammilehto** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:30 pm

Went over to H-niemi this morning for first summer visit.

Thought I'd pick up some great veggies at decent prices.

I won't go into particulars but will just say that after some 15-20 years of finding good things at good prices there - today was a big disappointment. Nothing really that great looking - and they have no shame in asking just about any price they want.

The Harbor VanhaMarket might start to look appealing again - they had priced themselves out of the running (for me anyhow) - but maybe not anymore.

Anyone got any favorite PK 'markets' where 'fresh' and 'price' mean something?

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Mook · Post by **Mook** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:42 pm

Lidl... on the day they get vegetables delivered?
(I have a tendency to go on Tuesday evenings; they usually seem OK then)

There's also Hakaniemi market, which ought to be cheaper than Tori. While you're there the Asian shops tend to have quite good Veg too, I think they were getting them on Thursdays, but I could be wrong.

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:36 pm

I didn't even know there was a market in Herttoniemi !

When I'm at the mökki I go to the summer market in Tammisaari, the farmers sell their own produce there. Otherwise Helsinki tori is OK for the stuff I don't grow myself. Bought some great stuff in Lahti on Monday and the market traders there were so smiley and friendly - it was lovely.

I hardly shop in Helsinki at all in summer, so apart from the tori and Hakaniemi I don't have much idea.

jtammilehto · Post by **jtammilehto** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:44 pm

Damn - sorry - got my 'H's' mixed -

The big disappointment was exactly Hakaniemi!!!!

(Herttoniemi has been a DISASTER whatever they have tried to do there for the last 20 years!)

And - yes - Lidl is a damn good place VERY often - one has to time their visits with their deliveries.

Going on a late Sat afternoon will see most things wiped out - I know from today.

Actually gives a good example - Sikli potatoes were EVERYplace H-niemi 4,50 kg - Lidl had a sign 1,50 - but they were gone.

Sikli = sikli = sikli - why in hell do those clowns on market place need 3X the price? Even 2,50 would be OK once you are there. And please don't tell me that these everyday torikauppiat can't get a decent price from growers - they sure in hell don't pay 3X what Lidl pays!

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:32 pm

I guess Hakaniemi quietens down during July. Most of their regular punters would be at their mökki, so it's mostly tourists popping in during the summer. It has never been a great place for fruit and veg - there are only a couple of greengrocers in there. Not sure about outside though.

jtammilehto · Post by **jtammilehto** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:00 pm

Actually it was the 'outside' I am referring to - I don't think I ever even bought an onion 'inside' - the outside has been a treasure before - though actually I have usually been visiting them late August - and September - maybe they have been more 'reasonable' then - thinking they have to build up something in their bank accts for the winter

elämä · Post by **elämä** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:22 pm

lidl? - yeah it's good if you like pesticide, and other chemicals in your veggies.

- me? i actually prefer a bit of mud over that.

jtammilehto · Post by **jtammilehto** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:32 pm

lidl? - yeah it's good if you like pesticide, and other chemicals in your veggies.

- me? i actually prefer a bit of mud over that.

Exactly same thing holds true for K-Kauppa, Local markets/toris, CityMarket, S-Market, Prisma - whatever - they all buy from similar suppliers.

On the other hand if origin is EU there are controls in place and enforced pretty well.

But in any case - the solution is to give your stuff a good wash - or grow your own!

elämä · Post by **elämä** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:40 pm

jtammilehto wrote:
lidl? - yeah it's good if you like pesticide, and other chemicals in your veggies.

- me? i actually prefer a bit of mud over that.
Exactly same thing holds true for K-Kauppa, Local markets/toris, CityMarket, S-Market, Prisma - whatever - they all buy from similar suppliers.

On the other hand if origin is EU there are controls in place and enforced pretty well.

But in any case - the solution is to give your stuff a good wash - or grow your own!

thats true, though some of those places do have sections with organic food.
There was some research some years back (in denmark, not finland, -but they get most of their stuff from germany anyways) the veggies in lidl (specially bell peppers) contained upto 80% more pesticides than in other stores. -yuuck.

jtammilehto · Post by **jtammilehto** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:19 pm

The supply chains in food business is SO dynamic that generalizations are extremely difficult.

I doubt Lidl has any worse suppliers than other Finnish retailers. The 'organic' system is so filled with nonsense and ridiculously inflated prices that it is too damn difficult to get to the bottom of it.

Just wash your stuff - a few drops of Fairy-type soap - and a bunch of water and you're in good shape.

Evira is pretty good at taking care of what we get off our shelves.

elämä · Post by **elämä** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:40 pm

jtammilehto wrote:The supply chains in food business is SO dynamic that generalizations are extremely difficult.

I doubt Lidl has any worse suppliers than other Finnish retailers. The 'organic' system is so filled with nonsense and ridiculously inflated prices that it is too damn difficult to get to the bottom of it.

Just wash your stuff - a few drops of Fairy-type soap - and a bunch of water and you're in good shape.

Evira is pretty good at taking care of what we get off our shelves.

you wash what you eat in soap? thats just weird. anyhow it's totally up to you if you like chemicals, i just prefer organic (even tho the finland has still a long way to come with that, not having proper markings for organic food and so).

but there are other reasons why i would not shop in lidl, suchs as how they treat their employees around europe: suchs as not letting them join unions, and having girls on their period wear a special head band so they can get more bathroom breaks http://franklludwig.com/lidl.html

jtammilehto · Post by **jtammilehto** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:19 pm

said a few drops of Fairy-type stuff

Then rinse that off well

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:59 am

Well, at least Lidl is employing people (and many of those they employ would otherwise be unemployed eg foreign students) and it is a growing chain in Finland opening up proximity stores in places where there is not much else. Any competition is welcome in Finland where there is effectively a quasi-monopoly by S-group (which would probably not be legal in most other European countries), so it is nice to have a choice. And that is what it is, a choice. Whether you choose to shop there or not is your privilege as a customer. I like their pricing, I like the fact that parking is free, I like the fact they don't have loyalty cards, I like the fact that I can get reasonably good fruit and veg and even Freetrade produce (tea, coffee, orange juice, chocolate) and organic food (flour, ketchup) as well as the usual Finnish staples. I can't afford to shop daily for 5 in Ekolo or Ruohojuuri...

What do you mean when you say there are no "proper markings" for organic produce in Finland?
http://www.evira.fi/portal/fi/kasvintuo ... omumerkki/
http://www.hepuli.com/tietopankkidrupal/node/1

jtammilehto · Post by **jtammilehto** » Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:48 pm

I have to agree basically.

There is the question of Lidl's employment policies - but as far as I know they follow the law and Finland has some of the planet's most employee-favorable laws.

It probably acts as an entry place for young workers - just as McD's - nothing wrong with that. I started life getting 1$ for sharpening 400 knives in the US - I survived.

WalMart also 'exploits' labor - but there are good chances to learn and move on.

As for Lidl's position on the market - one should be pretty thankful they exist. It has been the ONLY SIGN of life in what his supposed to be a competitive market.

Kesko just announced huge profits - S-Group officials get very nice salaries - both think they are God's Gift to the Cionsumer by overcharging 20-40% -- and then giving you back 1-2% if you continue to let yourself be robbed.

There are a lot of not-so-good Lidl products - but they are mostly in the processed category - but that's the same for the traditional junky Finnish processed stuff - be it Saarioinen, Atria, etc.

Some items are dodgy and I wonder about their 'marketing' - they claim Iltalehti has given #1 Taste to their green Belarom coffee - tried it and I can still taste the bitterness.

On the other hand I tried their new (Velbo?) Black Label Emmenthal - and while did not A-B it with Valio it certainly tasted great and was 12€ kilo - not Kesko's 40-50-60% higher for Valio. There are a LOT of products like that - one just has to use their own sense of taste etc. And KNOW HOW TO COUNT!

Lidl's vegetables are on the whole as good as any in the K-S system. CM Sello has a good selection and controls mostly for freshness - they just could drop prices by 50%! Lidl is also fairly adventurous with selling items beyond potatoes and turnips - this is a welcome change to the usual where a 'budget' approach avoids anything outside the mainstream taste of a culture.

I noticed that Aldi has now started in US too - and they are all over Europe - so maybe they start here.

Rather than be concerned with Lidl's employee policies - perhaps a responsible Finnish citizen should more wonder how K and S have managed to keep competition OFF the Finnish market and penalize everyone with high prices! Tesco has been kept out - Lidl had a hell of a fight - and in another field everyone should know about the rotten politics that was used to keep IKEA out! Finland supposedly scores high in anti-corruption numbers - but still SOMEHOW the local big shots prevail!

Karhunkoski · Post by **Karhunkoski** » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:27 pm

Good summary jtammilehto

I once spoke to someone who lives in the next village to the owner of Lidl. Apparently he is something of a recluse, and despite being a multi-millionnaire, he still lives in a modest house and drives a modest car. He is also something of philanthropist, and gives generously to charity as well as supporting students from poor backgrounds through their university studies. But I suppose one wouldn't read about this on the "carefully-selected comments" pages of a "I hated my job at Lidl" website

I'd also like to add that "organic" isn't always the squeeky-clean product that customers think they're getting. Organic products in supermarkets can (and often do), contain non-organic material. Buying "Organic" is very much an emotional decision and marketeers have capitalised on this in recent years to maximise profit from gullible consumers. The process of gaining organic certification is relatively watertight, but once in full production, the system is open to all levels of abuse, re-labelling and general skullduggery.

If someone is really interested in eating organic, grow it yourself or buy direct from local "known" sources.

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