About Finland, its language and citizens.

[espanjalainen22]

Terveisiä kaikille!

First of all, sorry for any mistake I could make writing in English, my level isn't very advanced and sorry for my absoltely ignorance of the subject I want to discuss here.

I've heard some of these things which I'm going to ask here somewhere and I'd like to know the answer from native Finnish people.

Do you think is it possible to completely learn the Finnish language (with perfect understanding of its grammar) being an adult with a non-related-language as mothertongue (considering related to Finnish language the Estonian)? Have you ever met anybody without any contact to Finland and its language before moving to Finland and after some years living there they have learnt it at 100%? How long did it take to them? I'm interested in experiences you might know, close friends...so on.


I've also heard that Finnish is such a hard language that some native Finns, after some time abroad and without almost any contact with Finnish, after using an easy language like English they start to have some troubles with the grammar (cases, suffixes, declensions...) Is there any grain of truth here?

and finally, what about the Swedishspeakers who live in Finland? I've read you could find a little percentage of Swedishspeakers Finns who have grown up in a Swedish environment (school, parents, neighbours...) and they don't know Finnish so they feel like foreigners in their own country. Does it happen? have you ever met anybody in this situation? This question is related to the first one, if they try to learn it when they are adult.

Kiitos paljon! I really appreciate any comment with your experiences and knowledge about it!

[EP]

I've also heard that Finnish is such a hard language that some native Finns, after some time abroad and without almost any contact with Finnish, after using an easy language like English they start to have some troubles with the grammar (cases, suffixes, declensions...) Is there any grain of truth here?

Simple answer: NO. Only thing that happens they may use words that are no longer in active use. For example my cousin who has lived in Austria 30+ years calls plastic "plastiikki" instead of "muovi".

Have you ever met anybody without any contact to Finland and its language before moving to Finland and after some years living there they have learnt it at 100%? How long did it take to them? I'm interested in experiences you might know, close friends...so on.

I have met only a certain American university teacher. He has written several linguistic books and knows something like ten languages. BUT there are types like Neil Hardwick and Keith Armstrong (both Brits) that everybody knows. The first one has written and directed several plays (in Finnish), the second one is a football coach who is on TV just about every week. Only accent reveals that they are not natives. And there is Roman Schatz (German). His Finnish is perfect, he writes books and newspaper columns.

[EP]

what about the Swedishspeakers who live in Finland? I've read you could find a little percentage of Swedishspeakers Finns who have grown up in a Swedish environment (school, parents, neighbours...) and they don't know Finnish so they feel like foreigners in their own country.

I have a Swedish speaking daughter-in-law. But she is 100 % bi-lingual although she has grown in a Swedish speaking enviroment. They all know Finnish, only 80+ grandmother doesn´t. But she does not know Swedish either, she speaks some funny island dialect of Swedish.

[sammy]

I've also heard that Finnish is such a hard language that some native Finns, after some time abroad and without almost any contact with Finnish, after using an easy language like English they start to have some troubles with the grammar (cases, suffixes, declensions...) Is there any grain of truth here?

That sounds a bit far-fetched. It might be *possible* in some cases of course, for example if the person in question was very young when leaving Finland (and Finnish) behind. But adults... sounds like codswallop IMO to maintain you could somehow unlearn your native language.

On the other hand, if you've learnt Finnish as a foreign language to start with - then it is possible, in fact rather likely, that the skills get rusty for lack of practice. But that's a different thing.

You see... Finnish or any other language, when you've acquired it as your mother tongue (I'm saying 'acquired' since it is not 'learning' in the same sense that you can learn a foreign language later on in life) is not a "skill" that could be said to be hard or easy... do you find it 'hard' or 'easy' to speak, listen to, or think in your own language (Spanish)?

In most cases, I would actually argue that it is almost impossible not to know your mother tongue, even if you live abroad for long periods of time.

[espanjalainen22]

Thank you very much for replying! more answers with your opinions are very welcome

My thought that some Finns might have some problems to remember the grammar of their mothertongue was also caused when I watched this video of that Finnish model/singer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AhymRRxd7U and some people wrote that she was abroad for some time and that's was the reason of her language problems, or just simply is she a little bit fool? (although I don't understand almost any word of her speech so I don't know which kind of mistakes she makes)

[kalmisto]

Do you think is it possible to completely learn the Finnish language (with perfect understanding of its grammar) being an adult with a non-related-language as mothertongue (considering related to Finnish language the Estonian)?

You do not need a perfect understanding of Finnish grammar to be able to speak perfect Finnish. Neil Hardwick ( Englishman ) and Roman Schatz ( German ) speak perfect Finnish but they do certainly not have a perfect understanding of its grammar. The best way to learn Finnish is through language immersion.

[interleukin]

Most native speakers of any language are pretty much clueless about the grammar of their language. It is only the foreigners who try to learn the language (any language) that really need such a thing. A native speaker will just "know" what is right and what is not.

[espanjalainen22]

Most native speakers of any language are pretty much clueless about the grammar of their language. It is only the foreigners who try to learn the language (any language) that really need such a thing. A native speaker will just "know" what is right and what is not.

Yep, of course that's true but I meant "without (almost any important) grammar mistakes"

[EP]

I meant "without (almost any important) grammar mistakes"

For a native speaker it is almost impossible to make grammar mistakes in Finnish. At least in spoken language. I don´t know anyone who makes grammar mistakes. Except some irritating voices in radio who use single person verb forms when my ear tells it should be plural. But I guess language changes.

I once heard absolutely beutiful Finnish in the radio. It turned out that the person who spoke was an elderly Brazilian whose parents had moved to Brazil 100 years ago. He spoke Finnish as it was spoken 100 years ago.

[interleukin]

I have lived away from my home country for a long time and don't get the chance to use my native language as often as I would like. My spelling has gotten worse and it does happen that I am missing a word. There is no way, however, for me to start speaking grammatically incorrectly (and my native language has pretty complex grammar). It would just sound wrong and my brain would stop me before I said it. I can not say if this is the same for everyone, but I would not believe that Finns would have such problems more than others due to the Finnish grammar.

[interleukin]

to add to EPs excellent post: Of course you will sound funny if you have not used your native language for a long time (and been part of the culture that the language is in). You have no concept of the current slang, and you use words that no one uses any more. You might sound like your parent or your grandparent. When I go to my home country all the people under 30 sounds like idiots to me because their language is sloppy and they have a vocabulary that I do not get. I must sound really formal sometimes to those people.

[Upphew]

My thought that some Finns might have some problems to remember the grammar of their mothertongue was also caused when I watched this video of that Finnish model/singer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AhymRRxd7U and some people wrote that she was abroad for some time and that's was the reason of her language problems, or just simply is she a little bit fool? (although I don't understand almost any word of her speech so I don't know which kind of mistakes she makes)

The mistakes she makes are along the lines: "not for good health" = unhealthy, "unwarm" = cold. And she keeps on talking when "normal" Finn without foreign exposure would keep a short (or long) pause to think for the right word.

[sammy]

Thank you very much for replying! more answers with your opinions are very welcome

My thought that some Finns might have some problems to remember the grammar of their mothertongue was also caused when I watched this video of that Finnish model/singer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AhymRRxd7U and some people wrote that she was abroad for some time and that's was the reason of her language problems, or just simply is she a little bit fool? (although I don't understand almost any word of her speech so I don't know which kind of mistakes she makes)

Being a native Finnish-speaker does not stop one from being one or several of the below

a) a pretentious show-off, who wishes desperately to convince everyone s/he has "internationalised" herself (by spiiking bääd vinnish)
b) verbally challenged
c) a bit thick

Nevertheless, I'd still like to stress that no-one thinks of stuff like grammar when speaking his or her mother tongue. So "remembering the grammar" is, as a concept, somehow illogical in this context.

One may use "incorrect language", or mix up words or metaphors... like maanjärjestys instead of maanjäristys for example, or johan nyt on maailmanpyörät sekaisin... they can mess up compound words (that's very common - like linja auto or jännitys elokuva...) ... believe me, native speakers also make lots and lots of language bloopers if you're very strict about it! But it's not that they'd struggle with their grammar in the same sense as someone learning Finnish as a foreign language might... Mother Tongue, bless her socks, does not really work that way.

[sammy]

Most native speakers of any language are pretty much clueless about the grammar of their language. It is only the foreigners who try to learn the language (any language) that really need such a thing. A native speaker will just "know" what is right and what is not.

How very true! When I look at the questions here (and some of the answers especially) I occasionally go - what the heck are they talking about! Some things I could never explain "correctly" in terms of Finnish grammar...

[kalmisto]

espanjalainen22

"Is Finnish a difficult language ?" ( by Professor Andrew Chesterman ) :
http://www.helsinki.fi/lehdet/uh/499l.html