Do I have a chance?

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If people ask for help the very least I can do is to give some positive reinforcement. Not just shoot them down with arbitration.

I've discovered that there seems to be a mindset of "Think REALISTICALLY" here in Finland. Which has been interpreted to me as "If we don't expect the best, then it's a positive surprise if the best happens". Which is !"#¤% & only a small part of the problem with integration in Finland. People need hope to keep going when they get turned down.

Their chances are slim & maybe their sights are set a little too high for living quarters. But it does not mean that the individual in question cannot do it.

There are many people on this forum who didn't succeed in finding a job in 1 to 2 years.

Yeah? Well how many success stories have you heard? It's probably very few because it's the people who complain that are the loudest. I worked my arse off & I had a Traineeship (English Speaking Kindergarten) in my first 2 months. When that didn't work out (because of bureaucratic red tape) I found another full time job with another kindergarten. I also, as noted, worked for WWF as a facer for 3 months. I was offered work as a demolitions laborer but had to turn down as I was currently working.

As said before: you can apply, but getting it is something completely different.

And if you don't apply you DON'T have a chance.

That's why there are much more applicants than places and there is a rigid selection system.

I know how rigid the system is. Nothing worth having is easy.

This kid wants to be a Doctor. The world NEEDS more Doctors. It's hard work to become a Doctor.

his first line of approach to all questions seems to be "help me"

I can't see the problem in asking for help. I thought that was the spirit of these forums.

[interleukin]

The world needs doctors, not 16 year olds daydreaming about life in an "exotic" country that they know nothing about.

[rinso]

I've discovered that there seems to be a mindset of "Think REALISTICALLY" here in Finland.

Which is a very practical approach.

I can't see the problem in asking for help. I thought that was the spirit of these forums.

The best help you can get is a realistic assessment of the situation. Not some positive thinking to make people feel good.
People who are about to make life changing decisions are not interested in good intentions, but in cold facts.
The ones that are only waiting for positive encouragements are fooling themselves.

And for help in finding a job?
Who will use his contacts and influence to help a complete stranger (only known from this forum) finding a job?
Best you can expect are a few links (that are already in the links section) and one or two ideas.

[sammy]

his first line of approach to all questions seems to be "help me"

I can't see the problem in asking for help. I thought that was the spirit of these forums.

I quite agree, you're absolutely right there. But you're sort of misquoting me, a bit out of context. I was merely referring to his attitude. If you look at the OP's postings, see under "Studying", he did not actually seem to accept any help in way of more realistic alternatives... but seemed to expect a ready-made solution to the dilemma. Even when it was pointed out to him that the Medicine Man path is not impossible but really really difficult. True, being too harsh does not help anyone. It's equally true however that sometimes, at least sometimes, it's good to have a few things pointed out to you right at the start. Like the small detail that in order to study Medicine here you'd need to actually know Finnish. Don't tell me that it was too hard on the poor guy to find that out this soon...

You're kind and encouraging enough, admitted, to bring out your own experiences. But you did not apply to Medical studies did you? You surely know it's a feck of a challenge to pass the entrance exams even if you have top marks in the Finnish matriculation exam and do not need to worry about the language... what if he was not told these things, but something like "yeah, you can apply, just finish your school first, easy peasy, if you want it just do it" - he might have buggered off this forum, studied his ar$e off for three years, and only then realised "oh feck the application forms and the exam are in Finnish... nnnnice. Thanks Finland Forum." (I'm exaggerating a bit but you know what I mean)

No point in bickering about it though, if he is a normal 16-year old kid he's probably already thinking of something else altogether.

[Upphew]

I can't see the problem in asking for help. I thought that was the spirit of these forums.

I thought these forums were glorified front end to Google.

"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you will not have to listen to his incessant whining about how hungry he is."

[sammy]

false hope

Now, now - let's be humble and remember this: the next time someone comes here and asks help because "he wants to learn the Finnish language in three weeks without any lessons, build a log cabin with a lakeside view with a max 500€ budget in Ullanlinna, and get a nice job as the Minister of Interior Design within a month from his arrival", let's provide positive feedback. Come on, you can do it, if you really want! These are not impossible goals, just work hard and it'll be all right! If everyone gave up every time they were told they couldn't do something we wouldn't have people capable of walking on water!

[Upphew]

These are not impossible goals, just work hard and it'll be all right! If everyone gave up every time they were told they couldn't do something we wouldn't have people capable of walking on water!

Wait a few months and you'll see how even Finns fail at walking on water.

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I wasn't aware of OP other posts regarding all of this.

If people ask for help the very least I can do is to give some positive reinforcement.

You are some cocksucker with AIDS then, eh? Retarded stupids like you should stay out of the discussion , just for the sake it annoys any people who actually know the score. Your kind of retarded individuals are just giving the stupids with no life false hope. Piss off and never cross my path, and I'll never abuse your arse, OK?

Pursuivant. Are you on your rags? You seem to be getting a little too emotional about this. You're not the kids mother are you?

Now, for future reference, so at least your put downs will be accurate & actually insulting. I don't have AIDS, I don't suck cocks, nor am I homosexual, as that particular put down implies, I am not retarded & neither am I stupid. You could try "idiot" next time, but I'm not sure that one will stick either. I don't know where you got your information from, but there word is that not everything you read on the internet is true.

I feel sorry for you that your name calling implies that you're homophobic. It's ok, lot's of people have irrational fears & there are lots treatments available. Hypnosis seems to work well.

Your threat to 'abuse my arse' if I cross you path. Well, I feel that you're being completely unreasonable, as I do not foresee my departure from these public forums in the near future. I'm afraid you're going to have to grin and bear it for the time being.

Yours Sincerely,

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[Tiwaz]

Let's put it this way.

If the abuse people receive in this forum, as side order of telling them facts of life, is enough to put someone down.

They have no hope in hell to survive in Finland.

IF they manage to get through the rough love and harsh reality and they are very, very lucky. They might succeed.

Positive encouragement is modern day idiocy resulting from attitude that everyone can be anything if they really, really want it. No, they can't.

I will never ever be billionaire playboy who made his fortune in golfcourse or something like that. Giving me positive encouragement would not get me any closer to that goal either. What is good is giving facts of life to teenagers, slap them around a bit to remind them that place called Earth is not CareBearLand where hugs and frolics are abudant, but rather cold and harsh place once you leave shelter provided by mom and dad.

Welcome to real world kid! !"#¤% happens, smart guys pack a shovel.

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It's a sad state of affairs when people deem it necessary to subject others to their biting words & scathing pessimism. When, as has been pointed out, it's a dog eat dog world, why do you need to make it harder? Is it because some DARES to voice their dream?

Maybe this is born of their own frustrations with the so called "cold harsh world" we live in, maybe the naysayers themselves have had dreams of !"#¤% rainbows, lollipops & sunshine. Then when they've been unleashed they've fallen into their own pit of reality.

Life is tough. Being positive & optimistic is not idiocy. Being positive & optimistic without being grounded is. I believe that my advice was well founded. I gave facts and didn't shoot the kid down for asking. I didn't say that everything was going to fall into his lap. I did say that if he worked hard he could do it.

Why make life needlessly harder? It's not as if my advice was "Think of a unicorn & ALL your dreams will come true!!!"

[Upphew]

Why make life needlessly harder? It's not as if my advice was "Think of a unicorn & ALL your dreams will come true!!!"

Put some rose tinted classes and high hopes on, and you'll read it like that. Although you give some reasonable advice ("can be done", "work hard", "start saving"), you also give outright wrong ones too (residency registered on the grounds of studying -> Kela answers: PISS OFF!). Also we are talking about studying medicine here... I have faint memory (that I can't seem to confirm right now) that it takes something like 2,3 tries to get to study that.

So be positive, give advise with positive attitude, but please please give also the harsh numbers that reflect the reality... I'll keep on showing them straight to the face in case of hippie glasses.

[Pursuivant]

I don't suck cocks, nor am I homosexual, as that particular put down implies

I rather get blowjobs from women, but I can see now from what kind of culture you come from.

[Pursuivant]

. Being positive & optimistic is not idiocy.

No, its actually just like having an unicorn's horn up your arse.

[sammy]

I gave facts and didn't shoot the kid down for asking. I didn't say that everything was going to fall into his lap. I did say that if he worked hard he could do it.

I sympathise with you on the "it's unnecessary to be harsh" part, but nevertheless I'll need to say this:

Not only that but if you apply & are granted entry into one of the Universities you can apply for KELA Student Allowance, you could also apply for a student grant.

Unfortunately, what we have there is about as far from "fact" as can be. It contains two big lumps of utter b*llocks - which in no way would "help" the person in question, since no amount of work, well-wishing or goodwill can change these aspects of the matter:

a) as others have pointed out, if your residence in Finland is based on studies you can not get the KELA student allowance

b) there are no other "student grants" for undergraduates than the KELA student allowance.

It is of course possible to claim that "hey, one can still apply"... but what sort of advice is that? It's a bit like giving some application instructions in Latin - then when the other person complains he can't understand Latin, you just say "yeah but you can still read them even if you don't understand them, can't you?"

The real issue is: it is often debatable whether it is better to be "realistic" - or to provide such half-baked and misleading "advice".

Whatever. This is getting rather pointless.

[Pursuivant]

I think the unicorns horn has a point?