Rights as father for child internationally.

[EP]

Those papers have to be signed at her municipality. There are social care types who take care of children´s affairs. You both have to show up there, the papers are signed there and at the same time all things necessary are dealt with, including visiting rights and custody. It is not a paper that she hands toyou for signing, it has to be done officially.

I wrote that a month ago. Why didn´t you insist on that? That is how it is done.

Go to your doctor and ask him for a paper where s/he says what s/he prescribed to you and for what reason.

Your girlfriend (ex) is playing with too serious matters. Does not sound like a very mature person.

[EP]

if I was to study somewhere abroad I might not be able to pay the full 200 euros per month

Who has decided the sum? Child support depends on your income AND her income. That is not something you yourselves decide.

[rinso]

if I was to study somewhere abroad I might not be able to pay the full 200 euros per month

Who has decided the sum? Child support depends on your income AND her income. That is not something you yourselves decide.

Yes, indeed.
Iirc €140,-/month is around the bottom end of the scale. €200,- is for people with at least average salaries.
(but the amount changes when the child grows older)

[Rip]

Those papers have to be signed at her municipality. There are social care types who take care of children´s affairs. You both have to show up there, the papers are signed there and at the same time all things necessary are dealt with, including visiting rights and custody. It is not a paper that she hands toyou for signing, it has to be done officially.

I wrote that a month ago. Why didn´t you insist on that? That is how it is done.

One reason is that the kid isn't born yet. There is nothing to sign as he can't even even officially accept the paternity yet.

Paternity may not be acknowledged before the birth nor after the death of the child

(from the paternity act)

[Rip]

3) Not recognize child at all.

Not really a viable option (assuming you have no doubts that you actually are the father) as the child can be confirmed as yours without your co-operation, and not co-operating in this point would likely be unproductive.

She said that if I would go to court she would do abbortion as she still could for 3 weeks (shes about 5 months pregnant so i doubt that its possible, and I told her: you won't), or that she would just kill herself and the baby. (I don''t think she would really do this either but said: )

If the child and mother are healthy, an abortion is not option any more. By the way, you do keep your skype conversation records and if not banned by Dutch law record phone calls?

and that she will let the judge read the text about speed (it wasnt about speed, the text was in dutch and I said I was going to my doctor to discuss more Ritalin or possibly Dextra-Amphetamine, after which I got the ritalin).

Then you should have nothing to worry about..?

And that she would let the judge read my text messages about weed, (I used to smoke weed ocasionally before quitting a few months back because I am getting a daughter and I am from the Netherlands so obviouslly this is an accepted thing here as you probably know).

Do you have something tangible on her past drug use (if it gets nasty)?

Unfortunately it will be though, as she will have every opportunity to present you as unworthy drug addict. It might not actually work in a court, but there isn't much you can do to prevent her from presenting the same story to the child a few years later.

[Rosilla]

EVERY FATHER regardless of what he has done(drugs etc...) has a right to see his child, BUT if the mother does not want that, he has to fight for those rights... If the court believes her story (they probably wont just by word of mouth, she needs real proof) then he may have to have supervised visits at first, if he does those with no problems it should work out fine and he should be able to get unsupervised visits after that...

IF she denies you of your RIGHT as a father then you can use that against her in court, its not up to her to say when, or where you see the child, if you two can not make arrangements then the courts will make that decision for you both...

If you give her sole custody you are SINKING yourself and will be at the her mercy as to when you see the child...

She can not tell you how much you have to pay (the courts have set guidelines as to how much has to be paid depending on your income) if the courts say it is 100 euros per month then that's all it is and she can not deny you seeing your child if she feels it is not enough...

If she bad mouths you to the child, that can also be used against her in court (not a lot can be done for that but if it gets too bad then she may lose custody)

DO NOT give her full/sole custody go for joint custody with her being the primary caregiver, so she will have the child most of the time and you can have your visitation and you have to also make sure you specify you want the child to go to an English speaking school (you have a RIGHT to ask for that)

all that being said, the right thing to do is to make sure you do not give up, do not give into her whims and stand strong on what you want...

good luck...

[Rip]

EVERY FATHER regardless of what he has done(drugs etc...) has a right to see his child

According to the Finnish law a parent does not have a right to see the child. The law law always talks about the right of the child to see his/her parents. The difference between these two concepts becomes important when the child gets bit older and can express his opinion. It just might happen that he does not want to meet the father whom the mother has said is an addict who does not really love the kid anyway...

If she bad mouths you to the child, that can also be used against her in court (not a lot can be done for that but if it gets too bad then she may lose custody)

I wonder if somebody can point to an even anecdotal case of this happening in practice (in this country). Several anecdotes of the of the opposite kind (child and father loose contact, sometimes child feeling sorry about the state of the affair when the father is already dead and buried) one can have read in the letters section of Helsingin Sanomat during the past few days alone. It's been topic there lately.

In short for OP: If you can have at least decent terms with the mother, do that. If you have no actual doubt about the paternity, there is no point in being uncooperative in officially recognizing it either. Don't sign anything else that you have not thoroughly read through in advance. Seriously, if you can gather some money getting an expert legal opinion on them would make sense too. The city child welfare officer is probably good for making legally valid papers without having a court battle - assuming you two are not too far apart in your opinions. I'm sure you can have the opportunity to read those papers also in your own time (and with perhaps professional legal help) before going to sign them.

[Rosilla]

"According to the Finnish law a parent does not have a right to see the child. The law law always talks about the right of the child to see his/her parents. The difference between these two concepts becomes important when the child gets bit older and can express his opinion. It just might happen that he does not want to meet the father whom the mother has said is an addict who does not really love the kid anyway..."


yes I think thats what I meant, the child has a right to both parents and if the father does Fight for the rights then the child would have a chance to get to know them and make up there own decision, if left in the mothers hands he has virtually no chance if she is bad mouthing him, I have heard of cases here where children were ostrasized from the father from a young age and when they were old enough to go to the father they left the mother for good because all she did was slam/put down the father and the child got a chance to meet there father and make up there own decisions (thats an extreme case where the mother only ever talked bad about the father and one day the son wanted to find out for himself and rode his bicycle 75 kms to go to his father) when the police were called they refused to remove the child because he was old enough(14 yrs old) to speak for himself and said he did not want to go back to the mother...

and I think to just hand over full custody in hopes of having a good relationship with a woman who has said the things the OP has mentioned would for sure backfire in this case, as she would have full control and most likely would not give any access to the father...


Does anyone know if Finland has an Office of the Childrens Lawyer? we have one here where if the parents can not agree at all the child can have there own Lawyer working on their (the childs) behalf and would fight for the childs rights? maybe this is a case where that could be possible? if it is even available...

[dutchguy]

Thanks again so much for the advice so far,

I have spoken with the mom again for a bit, she said she hates me more and more with every message that I send her where I try to explain the things i said. In the end I just said that I want to pay money for that child as the child deserves a good life, and that I would like to sign some agreement where she gets the rights for the child, we decide the amount I pay, and I get visitation rights to the child. This seems like a fair option as she will have all the burdens of taking care for the child alone, and I will be living in the Netherlands so visitation wouldn't happen more then a couple of times per year as more is too costly for me . She hasn't responded yet, she said she would contact me when the child is born and when I can see it. So far I think the best option is just to wait and see how things are going. She said she didn't want to sign any agreement and that if they needed proof I was father they would do a blood test. This seems strange to me, I believe I need to recognize the child somewhere myself as they can't possibly just take her word for this? Anyway I'm currently on Holliday in Portugal and this thing is still contantly on my mind. I don't think going to court would solve very much and just make things worse, I first want to wait and see how things go, maybe once the baby is born and her hormones are stabilized we can come to a reasonable solution and make up an agreement, if not I will see at that point in time what I'm going to do.

[dutchguy]

Hi there, So alot of things have happened again . When I went to finland to visit my friends the girls father was going to pickup some things but couldnt so she came instead. Then we talked abit and that same night she sent me a message that she felt sorry for those things she said, we had a good talk and now were back together. I blame it all on the pregnancy hormones, and hope things will keep going as good as theyre now! Im really looking forward to the little girl and am going to start looking for work in Finland so we could live together.

I had one question however, does anybody know where I could order some book for her to study Dutch? Basic dutch for beginners that is. with the instruction language being finnish, as her english is not of such high level that she could study from english to dutch, this would be greatly appreciated as I could give this to her as a gift .

Thanks all for your help,
Mark

[rinso]

Basic dutch for beginners that is. with the instruction language being finnish,

Don't think they exist. There is however a Finnish/Dutch dictionary. Probably available in the better Finnish bookshops.

[ajl]

You may want to read up on post delivery hormonal changes as well, since some women have issues then.
Prepared and forewarned might help.