Finding a job in a kitchen/restaurant? - Apprenticeship

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Hello! I'm new, and though I've looked around at topics on working in Finland, I wanted to ask a few questions myself.

I'm currently 21 and in culinary school, with my course finishing in June 2011. Ideally, I'd like to move shortly after completing school, so either late 2011 or early 2012. I'm wondering what the chances of finding a job in a kitchen/restaurant etc. in Helsinki are. (To be more exact, I'm looking for an apprenticeship, so I can learn and complete hours needed while working.) I already have 3 years of experience working in a kitchen, but it has all been before I started my course. Is that going to be a problem, or is experience just experience? I'm currently studying Finnish, and would like to have the basics down - enough to hold a conversation, ask questions etc. before I move. Will knowing at least basic Finnish give me even a slight advantage while looking for a job? I've been researching on pay rates in restaurants in Finland, and have come across about 9€/hour - is this about average?

Also, I plan on finding work before I move (I live in Canada), so I'm positive I'll have a way to support myself when I get there. Is this realistic? I know it will probably be difficult and take some time, so I want to get advice and start early.

I have done a lot of research on this, but there is so much information and sometimes it's hard to get a clear idea of what needs to be done. Hopefully this doesn't sound too unrealistic. Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[rinso]

(I live in Canada

If you looked through the forums, you noticed that before you can get a job as a non-EU citizen, your employer must prove he cannot find a suitable candidate in Finland or the EU. Since a kitchen apprentice is nothing special, you cannot claim niche skills to get a job. So the employer has to jump through some hoops to get you a workingplace. Not likely to happen since there are many young Finns who want to start a cooking career.

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rinso:
Would it make any difference if I were to say, stay here for a few years to gain more experience (2-3 years) here before looking for a job (instead of an apprenticeship)? I understand it would still be difficult, and my chances would still be very slim, but would they be any better?

Also, I looked at a file (http://www.mol.fi/mol/fi/99_pdf/fi/06_t ... inland.pdf) that was for foreigners moving to Finland - it mentions this: "Most of the job vacancies in Finland are in the retail, service and industrial work professions. New people are especially needed in service work and healthcare. For example, there is a particular need for nurses, cleaners, cooks and waiters." But I'm not sure how much this has changed since this was published.

tummansininen:
Going along with what I said to rinso, if I continued to study Finnish while staying here, to learn as much as I can (hopefully beyond basic conversational skills) would that give me a better advantage? I assume learning kitchen terminology would do well in addition to anything else I learn? I don't expect a whole restaurant to accommodate me, I would rather do my best to learn Finnish and use that.

I'm sorry for asking so many questions and seeming so insistent (and hopefully not stupid), but I really want to check out any options/possibilities available to me.

[rinso]

rinso:
Would it make any difference if I were to say, stay here for a few years to gain more experience (2-3 years) here before looking for a job (instead of an apprenticeship)? I understand it would still be difficult, and my chances would still be very slim, but would they be any better?

You still would need something "special" to make you stand out amongst other candidates. For instance if you would have worked a couple of years in a restaurant in Paris, you would become a "France trained cook". It would have promotional value for the restaurant that hires you.

Also, I looked at a file (http://www.mol.fi/mol/fi/99_pdf/fi/06_t ... inland.pdf) that was for foreigners moving to Finland - it mentions this: "Most of the job vacancies in Finland are in the retail, service and industrial work professions. New people are especially needed in service work and healthcare. For example, there is a particular need for nurses, cleaners, cooks and waiters." But I'm not sure how much this has changed since this was published.

The restaurant business went through a very bad period (economic crises, high VAT). Many places downsized their staff or were thinking about it. I don't think there are many vacancies that cannot easily be filled.

[jessesuomi]

Other than some kind of family or "cultural" reasons, I can not for the life of me figure why one would want to come to finland for work in the restaurant business.
Unless you can stand the system for many years to get citizenship that will enable you to move to another country, you will not really gain so much working in restaurants here. The working culture is not anything that even seems normal to many working in the restaurant business.
Come and visit perhaps, but do yourself a favor first and check it out before you commit.
To also add to what others have said, it is tough finding work here even if you have experience. Yes there are many foreign people finding work, especially in the biz, however, they seem to have had some other reason to come here and have spent some time in language class and such. Yet other than a work placement by the employment office, it really is tough. Even if you have years of experience working here!

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tummasininen:
Right now I'm working from a textbook, "From Start to Finnish" by Leila White. I'm also using anything online I can find. It seems to be going well so far, and since the textbook was expensive I don't plan on just giving up - I'll learn as much from it as I can, and then go on to lessons later on. I don't expect to just become fluent through online lessons and a textbook, so eventually I will get paid lessons, but I'm working with what I have right now.

I completely understand the reasoning behind it, I just wish it wasn't so difficult and time consuming. I still want to try, though, because you never know... even if it's a slim chance I'm not just going to give up, you know?

True enough, I really didn't think of it that way. Thank you for pointing that out.

I'm considering really taking any job available to me and going with that... and then once in Finland, looking for a better job. Is that an option? I know I'd still face the non-EU problem, but if I'm looking for jobs in other areas, are there certain jobs that are more open to foreigners? From what I've found, I think Finland only grants working visas to citizens from Australia & New Zealand, so that isn't going to work. I could look into the tourist visa, I guess, once I'm done school. I think it would be pretty low on my options, as I don't want to go spend a whole lot of money and come out empty handed, but if I need to do it I will.

I'm sorry my responses seem so short in comparison to all the information you've given me - I really appreciate it, since it helps a lot. Thank you so much.

rinso:
That is an option I'm considering, as a former boss of mine (from France) had mentioned training in France would be one of the best things I could do for myself. It's definitely something I will consider. Like I said above, at this point I'll take any job that will get me over there... it's just finding someone that will hire me, I guess.

Thank you as well!

jessesuomi:
Well, I'm already involved in culinary school, which is why I was aiming for that type of work. To be honest, I just love Finland - the culture, the language... everything. I know that's not enough reason to move (or for me to be allowed to move there) so I was hoping I'd be able to get a job in a field I was familiar with... but if I have to settle for something else I don't mind at all. Honestly, as long as I work in a clean, organized environment, it's alright. I don't expect things over there to be the same as they are here, so differences are alright.
I have been to Finland before, and I loved it. I know working and living there is completely different from travel, though, so I don't expect to just move and feel like I'm on vacation.

Thank you very much for the input/information, it helps a lot.

[rinso]

I know I'd still face the non-EU problem, but if I'm looking for jobs in other areas, are there certain jobs that are more open to foreigners?

For non EU, you need special skills to overcome that problem and to motivate your future boss to jump through several hoops.

I think Finland only grants working visas to citizens from Australia & New Zealand, so that isn't going to work.

That are working holiday visa. They can come for one year and work (max 3 months per employer). After that they have to go back, no extensions allowed.

[jessesuomi]

tummasininen:
Right now I'm working from a textbook, "From Start to Finnish" by Leila White.
jessesuomi:
Well, I'm already involved in culinary school, which is why I was aiming for that type of work. To be honest, I just love Finland - the culture, the language... everything. I know that's not enough reason to move (or for me to be allowed to move there) so I was hoping I'd be able to get a job in a field I was familiar with... but if I have to settle for something else I don't mind at all. Honestly, as long as I work in a clean, organized environment, it's alright. I don't expect things over there to be the same as they are here, so differences are alright.
I have been to Finland before, and I loved it. I know working and living there is completely different from travel, though, so I don't expect to just move and feel like I'm on vacation.

Thank you very much for the input/information, it helps a lot.

The text books will not help very much in the kitchen. There is a great deal of slang, maybe 75% of what is spoken in the kitchen is slang. Norsu for pork?

Keep in mind most of the kitchen workers here also have an education in it. Although, it does not make them very great.
So with that, I will give you a list of minuses I have found working in kitchens here and a bit about my experience so you can think about it.

I have been working in kitchens since the age of 15, so now nearly 20 years. I have worked Mexico, the USA (home), Sweden, Norway and France. Of these, hands down the sloppiest and most un organized have been here in Finland. I only stay so far as it allows me a home base to go to these other EU countries to work during my slow times. Despite having worked in 3 different Michelin 3 star restaurants, a two star in Stockholm, and also for Finlands most famous Chef, it is hard to find good clean work.
Of the places that have been here in Finland, unless you have a resume that includes Michelin Starred places, it is very hard to find work in the better, cleaner and more organized places. Very very difficult. And then if you are lucky enough to have that experience (NO school is going to be an equivalent), keep in mind there is usually a waiting list of young people who have spent time as interns at places like Mugaritz, El Bulli, Fat Duck and such waiting for job openings in these places. These people are already fluent native speakers so it kind of helps alot.
Other than that, the general condition of kitchens here is not what you may be used to. The working habits are a bit different as well. In many cases it is not what we would consider acceptable in North America. Which sometimes I do find a bit odd here in Finland. A strange paradox really. Food and crap just gets thrown on the floor and hardly is there ever really good cleaning done. Granted I havent seen all restaurants, but after a couple of years working for a temp agency I have seen the inside of many.

My advice to you if you are really looking for something, would be to look into the places in Lapland in the Winter as many there do hire foreign people and are often willing to do the paperwork. Another alternative could be to work in the archipelago during the summer time as the situation is kind of the same. However it is a bit of a problem of jobs since there was a huge enrollment of students into the restaurant schools some years ago and now there is many cooks out there looking for work.

[Pursuivant]

Basically your only option is to continue your education => if you can get to France its a step closer. To get to Finland you could look at some UAS degree in Hotel/Restaurant management, theres plenty about. That way you have chances of looking around if you're destined "here" for some perverted reason. Or if your current school has some sort of co-operation deals, there are these kind of "training" programmes. Usually though it s the Finnish students that go abroad to get experience, but theres more possibilities while you're still in school /freshly graduated. So you need to look into those.

Generally, if you come here on a tourist visa, the answer for work is "piss off" as you need to apply the work residence from at home - and your prospective employer isn't going to jump the hoops for a fresh grad unless they're looking for someone experienced in poutine. If you're someone won Hell's Kitchen over and fart Michelin stars, then the hoop-jumping might be quite different, but they've proven not to do so well here http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Michel ... 5259833282