Need avice - English Speaking Jobseeker

[09seger]

ok, Just to point out that its not me on this course its my Finnish husband because its a course for Finnish people, so unfortunatley those four people are Finnish. However the next available course for foreigners is January, which involves the intense language training.
While I value education, comments like " yes but are you qualified here" Or is it just another low level UK assessed qualification............ That is what makes people feel like... what ever you were taught in Uk its crap and worthless here! Then I check top worldwide Universities and see there are a couple of British ones before Helsinki! I have researched and I do know about Bachelors... or rather 4 year courses. Instead of jumping the gun and assuming I may have a worthless overpriced degree certificate, It maybe would have been better to enquire. and just for you !!!!!! lol

[09seger]

Racist may be the wrong word...but experince with foreigners the UK has had alot more of.

[Upphew]

While I value education, comments like " yes but are you qualified here" Or is it just another low level UK assessed qualification............ That is what makes people feel like... what ever you were taught in Uk its crap and worthless here! Then I check top worldwide Universities and see there are a couple of British ones before Helsinki! I have researched and I do know about Bachelors... or rather 4 year courses. Instead of jumping the gun and assuming I may have a worthless overpriced degree certificate, It maybe would have been better to enquire.

So you should know that when applying for a job, you shouldn't tell that you are Bachelor of this or Master of that, as they mean little or nothing to the person reading the paper. You have degree that is equivalent to Kauppatieteiden maisteri or diplomi insinööri and then some explanation how your degree differs from a known one and maybe a note that you got yours from a university that is rated as this or that.

Of course ymmv and some people and companies do know about funny furriner degrees and might even value them over Finnish one. Know your "enemy".

[Pursuivant]

The reason you're being encouraged to go make a claim is a very good one: you'll qualify for Integration Assistance paid at the rate of Labour Market Subsidy. The Integration Assistance involves a contract during which you will (typically) get fulltime instruction in learning Finnish. Free. And/or other courses, certificates etc to improve your work prospects.

Which is if you are not registered with them, you cannot get on any of these courses, nevermind you won't get any "benefits" as you're not unemployed. Being without work isn't being unemployed.

Finding you a job isn't. Finnish bureaucracy 101:

"look in the internet"

2. Jobseekers on either Labour Market Subsidy or Unemployment Allowance who are doing approved labour market training (upskilling/refreshing etc) are not required to look for work.

But you're required to attend the course. And in small boonietowns with the economy of a Welsh mining village the bureaucrats make people go on curses just if by some miracle a job would land and bite someone on the nose.

Ever noticed that Finns don't jaywalk?

hrmpf

I gather you believe that anyone who really wants to work just has to try hard enough and they'll get a job.

Depends on the market saturation.

Study is valued, and a working life is considered normal and compulsory.

Oh with the youth unemployment and how hard it is to get into any studyplace and the unemployment after studies, theres a growing generation of chavs these days... they even get sent home on the milktrain from the army for attitude problems.

[Pursuivant]

That is what makes people feel like... what ever you were taught in Uk its crap and worthless here!

Because it is. I mean seriously what do you expect? Look at yourself. You come from a country they drive on the wrong side of the road, you put milk in tea, you have plumbing on the out side of the house, think insulation is a double glazed single pane window and think floor heating is a carpeted bog? And you claim to be... better than us?

While I value education, comments like " yes but are you qualified here" Or is it just another low level UK assessed qualification............

Yes we know the UK education "spikes" but the Finnish goes according to the lines of the French style of a wide "baccalaureate" with literature and languages. Its just a different set of rules, I get into a lower category as we don't have any categorization with our bachelors degrees. But then again I am here, and this this is not the UK...this is...

[Pursuivant]

Before you go on about BNP and EDL pursuivant....which country is more racist?

Whats the Finnish word for "pakibashing"?

[sinikala]

Of course ymmv and some people and companies do know about funny furriner degrees and might even value them over Finnish one. Know your "enemy".

Dress it up whatever way you like, the problem is not with the papers (tertiary education in Finland is no great shakes). When the "furriner degree" is held by a Finn then it's often a passport to success see e.g. Ollila J., and Smiler Stubb.

Finland is a rather small country, and would do well to make use of the skills and diversity of educations & qualifications, that trained foreigners bring with them. "Know your friend" would be a better motto to aim for; the US and A has been profiting from the skills and knowledge of foreigners for the last 250 years.

[Upphew]

Of course ymmv and some people and companies do know about funny furriner degrees and might even value them over Finnish one. Know your "enemy".

Dress it up whatever way you like, the problem is not with the papers (tertiary education in Finland is no great shakes). When the "furriner degree" is held by a Finn then it's often a passport to success see e.g. Ollila J., and Smiler Stubb.

And I'd bet that they have spoken highly of their education and people that matter have believed what they have told. But the papers themselves were not the source of those peoples' success, imo. Ollila had most of his degrees from Finland and Stubb used his papers mainly in places that appreciated them: in Europe. I'd bet that his papers and degrees were almost irrelevant when he was chosen as foreign minister. Papers are just a established way of getting recommendations. I would prefer recommendation from a person who I know, how about you?

Finland is a rather small country, and would do well to make use of the skills and diversity of educations & qualifications, that trained foreigners bring with them. "Know your friend" would be a better motto to aim for; the US and A has been profiting from the skills and knowledge of foreigners for the last 250 years.

I agree, that Finnish system should make better use of the foreigners coming in.

[Pursuivant]

and Smiler Stubb.

That smarmy douche is so removed from "real life" its better he buggered off back to Brussels to winkle his pinkie.

[sinikala]

and Smiler Stubb.

That smarmy douche is so removed from "real life" its better he buggered off back to Brussels to winkle his pinkie.

Indeed, I am no fan of laughing boy, the self-aggrandizing chisel's hackneyed column in Finnair's in flight magazine in particular get on my tits.

My point stands that a foreign education is the cherry on the icing on the cake for those Finns in a position to finance it. It's not the foreign education / diploma that's the stumbling block - it's the lack of Finnish language skills or the nationality of those holding the papers that is the issue.

[Pursuivant]

Back in the "good old days", if you didn't get in to say medical school or HANKEN you went to study in Tartu and Uppsala. So the prejudice is "those too dumb but with money study abroad" which of course in many cases isn't necessarily true. Nevermind they are lamenting that even theres huge opportunities with Erasmus etc, the Finnish students tend to stick to at home, even it would benefit to study abroad. Sometimes its a problem finding faculties and programmes, but its also laziness or getting out of the comfort zone. Back in the day it was half expected for an university graduate to have done some studies abroad, especially postrgraduate studies, but I don't know what has changed this. I didn't go much as I had family and a job...

[finlandforumuser]

Overall, Finland is not racist.

Indeed there is no "open" racism. However there is hidden one. For instance small companies would send CV to a trash can if seeker name looks as russian, e.g. Ivanov. It wouldn't be matter if applicant is educated, professional, has even citizenship etc. His CV just not considered. Of course, there is no written order from to hiring manager to do that. It is just unspoken rule.

Another example, relations in schools between pulps. Again, there is no open clashes but small-talk and allusion could be visible.

[Upphew]

Too true. I hear it on the grapevine quite a lot, of insanely qualified and experienced people not even getting to interview because of the surname on their CV. It's not traditional stereotypical "Go home the lot of yas!" racism, it's more a case of employers preferring the familiar kinds of people whose culture and behaviour they understand. We're not used to it because most of us come from nations where the surname pool is already very mixed anyway and a foreign surname can still belong to someone who's never even been on a plane. Not so in Finland where the most exotic 3rd gen surname is Johansson.

That is why there have been talks about anonymous applications and news articles where foreigners tell that they have changed their names to get a job. Imho preferring something familiar is not racism and dissing someone because of their name is not racism. Stupidity maybe, but not racism.

[Tiwaz]

My point stands that a foreign education is the cherry on the icing on the cake for those Finns in a position to finance it. It's not the foreign education / diploma that's the stumbling block - it's the lack of Finnish language skills or the nationality of those holding the papers that is the issue.

Yes it is foreign education / diploma if it is not first and foremost supported by recognized FINNISH one.

Having diplomas from abroad which have no relation to recognized Finnish ones is huge stumbling block unless they come from something prestigious, or even overvalued, like Oxford.

Icing and cherry are useless without well built cake beneath them to expand your analogy. What most foreigners have to show is cherry, but no cake beneath. But cake without cake is not cake.

Too true. I hear it on the grapevine quite a lot, of insanely qualified and experienced people not even getting to interview because of the surname on their CV. It's not traditional stereotypical "Go home the lot of yas!" racism, it's more a case of employers preferring the familiar kinds of people whose culture and behaviour they understand. We're not used to it because most of us come from nations where the surname pool is already very mixed anyway and a foreign surname can still belong to someone who's never even been on a plane. Not so in Finland where the most exotic 3rd gen surname is Johansson.

But do you think of this from point of view of employer before saying how stupid their behavior is?

Do you appriciate how much it costs for employer to run series of interviews to find an employee? It is actually rather high cost! Not to mention how getting rid of poor worker can be a real pain in the ass (as opposed to UK).

So first and foremost they want to remove everyone who is even slight liability. And yes, Ivanov easily is tossed to trashcan. Reason is that as group, they have failed to establish themselves as highly qualified and capable workforce. Partially blame is, indeed, in the immigrants themselves. Or rather those who came before.

It does not take many burnt fingers with immigrant workers proving to be incompetent or unreliable (moving away) for employers to shy away from even considering them. And circles in Finland are small, so reputation spreads fast.

Can you blame employer who has to waste many hours and lots of euros in employment program for preferring low risk options over high risk options?

Risks and costs of hiring in Finland are not in same category as they are in UK. This leads to different attitude in hiring process.

[DMC]

The vast majority of Finns who go abroad and study a degree don't return.

I haven't heard that before, and I am a bit surprised by it. What is your source?