What kind of IT job is best in Finland??

fox19891989 · Post by **fox19891989** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:07 pm

Software,hardware,networking ,telecommunication or embedded engineering?
Discuss about 1:complexity of finding a job
2:salaries
3:future perspective

Thanks,I need to refer ur opinions!

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finlandforumuser · Post by **finlandforumuser** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:12 am

fox19891989 wrote:Software,hardware,networking ,telecommunication or embedded engineering?
Discuss about 1:complexity of finding a job
2:salaries
3:future perspective

Thanks,I need to refer ur opinions!

1. There are many openings currently. Situation is good, market is stable. However the chance of finding job is much less if you don't have workpermit here. Basically, you need EU passport or you CV goes to trash can (== low priority queue). Chance to find from abroad non-seniour position is very low, as there are many local unemployed fresh grads. You need the proven experience, references, degree, et al.

2. Salaries are pretty ok. Senior developer has about 5+ KEUR per month, but taxes are very high too. You can pay ~40%.
There are some small companies they don't like to pay reasonable values, they target on TES (minimal wage) but requirements are lousy too.

3. IT is saturated, Nokia is crashing, trade unions dragging business to Asia.

FinnGuyHelsinki · Post by **FinnGuyHelsinki** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:37 am

finlandforumuser wrote: 1. There are many openings currently. Situation is good, market is stable. However the chance of finding job is much less if you don't have workpermit here. Basically, you need EU passport or you CV goes to trash can (== low priority queue). Chance to find from abroad non-seniour position is very low, as there are many local unemployed fresh grads. You need the proven experience, references, degree, et al.

In the current economic climate the companies aren't hiring that much anymore, and there is quite a supply of experienced workers as well due to the hiring frenzy around the turn of the millennium and lay-offs within the last few years.

finlandforumuser wrote: 2. Salaries are pretty ok. Senior developer has about 5+ KEUR per month, but taxes are very high too. You can pay ~40%.

If by 'senior developer' you mean a B.Sc./M.Sc. with 10 years of work experience in the field (usually in a (semi)managerial or a specialist position), then 5kEUR including bonus is in the ballpark.

finlandforumuser wrote: 3. IT is saturated, Nokia is crashing, trade unions dragging business to Asia.

I wouldn't paint that dark a picture, although the golden years of IT are clearly in the past.

irnbru · Post by **irnbru** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:47 am

My company recently advertised 6 positions for IT jobs in Helsinki they required maybe a bachelors and 2 years experience so somewhat entry level. Pay is not brilliant, but not too bad either (like most I suppose I would consider myself slightly underpaid

)They advertised in Finnish and English on Monster and Finnish language was not a requirement. They filled the positions but they didn't get many decent applications. I was expecting they would get 1000 for each position as doom-mongered on here.

Mook · Post by **Mook** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:47 am

irnbru wrote:They filled the positions but they didn't get many decent applications.

Yeah, we've been recruiting too recently. There has been very little corellation between the contents of the CVs and the candidates that we interviewed - this is particularly true for the foreigners!

As an example, if you put 'navel gazing' as one of your professional skills you maybe shouldn't be surprised if you're asked questions about it.

Mölkky-Fan · Post by **Mölkky-Fan** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:03 am

Mook wrote: As an example, if you put 'navel gazing' as one of your professional skills you maybe shouldn't be surprised if you're asked questions about it.

Do you have a problem with candidates being honest in their CVs?

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:07 am

We're hiring too. Actually Monster sent me "my job" as a smack on match. If I didn't know what the job really was, I wouldn't dare apply.

paulrenn · Post by **paulrenn** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:12 am

Pursuivant wrote:We're hiring too. Actually Monster sent me "my job" as a smack on match. If I didn't know what the job really was, I wouldn't dare apply.

Maybe they are looking for your replacement?

Mölkky-Fan · Post by **Mölkky-Fan** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:13 am

We are hiring as well, software architect and hardware engineer on Monster

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:36 am

paulrenn wrote:Maybe they are looking for your replacement?

They've contacted the clonemasters for that.

Mook · Post by **Mook** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:58 am

Mölkky-Fan wrote:
Mook wrote: As an example, if you put 'navel gazing' as one of your professional skills you maybe shouldn't be surprised if you're asked questions about it.
Do you have a problem with candidates being honest in their CVs?

Jep. Not with the Finns, but the non-europeans have been pretyt bad.

I can understand that people might think "well if I can just get the interview, then I can sell myself", but unfortunately it doesn't work so well with technical jobs. In the end it's a huge waste of everyone's time. After about 5 bad interviews we decided to start telephone screening to weed out the clueless...

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:23 pm

FinnGuyHelsinki wrote:If by 'senior developer' you mean a B.Sc./M.Sc. with 10 years of work experience in the field (usually in a (semi)managerial or a specialist position),

You forgot: has to be under 25, preferrably just graduating with PhD, fluent in Chinese and Swahili, ABAP-coding for SAP R/3 and Oracle database admin, mainframe experience and CICS from VAX, agile Scrum technologies and salary expectation peanuts and free parking.

irnbru · Post by **irnbru** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:54 pm

Mook wrote:
irnbru wrote:They filled the positions but they didn't get many decent applications.
Yeah, we've been recruiting too recently. There has been very little corellation between the contents of the CVs and the candidates that we interviewed - this is particularly true for the foreigners!

As an example, if you put 'navel gazing' as one of your professional skills you maybe shouldn't be surprised if you're asked questions about it.

I can believe it.

My Boss said they put the ad out in Finnish and got a low response then they put it out in English also got a low response of real candidates but a much larger amount of unrealistic candidates.

Once apparently we had advertised for a Software Designer (ad in English) and they had chefs and mechanics and all sorts applying.

finlandforumuser · Post by **finlandforumuser** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:35 pm

FinnGuyHelsinki wrote: In the current economic climate the companies aren't hiring that much anymore, and there is quite a supply of experienced workers as well due to the hiring frenzy around the turn of the millennium and lay-offs within the last few years.

You may look the query on Monster, for instance only during 16.09 there are over 80 positions published in Finland. This is roughly year HUT turnover. Amount of openings is far beyond of your "quite a supply of experienced workers".

I know the current situation very well: amount of experienced workers is not that high, most of them have good positions already. It is pretty hard to find good engineer here.
One of key reasons as often programmers "retire" at age of 35, there become a manager, architect, guru, etc. Finding experienced Software Engineer the tough job. There are fresh grads, yes, but companies looking for people who could immediately drive projects without significant investment in the person.

finlandforumuser wrote: 2. Salaries are pretty ok. Senior developer has about 5+ KEUR per month, but taxes are very high too. You can pay ~40%.

If by 'senior developer' you mean a B.Sc./M.Sc. with 10 years of work experience in the field (usually in a (semi)managerial or a specialist position), then 5kEUR including bonus is in the ballpark.
[/quote]

Indeed I spoke about senior position and yes senior stands for high profile people. 10 years of work experience and M.Sc. degree are the basic to become a senior. You would also need good references who could confirm your experience.

On another hand, as I wrote in first post it is no chance to find job from abroad without qualification.

Cheer,

AldenG · Post by **AldenG** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:30 pm

Pursuivant wrote:
FinnGuyHelsinki wrote:If by 'senior developer' you mean a B.Sc./M.Sc. with 10 years of work experience in the field (usually in a (semi)managerial or a specialist position),
You forgot: has to be under 25, preferrably just graduating with PhD, fluent in Chinese and Swahili, ABAP-coding for SAP R/3 and Oracle database admin, mainframe experience and CICS from VAX, agile Scrum technologies and salary expectation peanuts and free parking.

Don't forget 10 years' experience developing iPhone apps.

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