Lox, bagel and cream cheese

[jmakinen]

I suppose they are still looking

And btw - in case some might feel put off by hearing 'boiled bagels' - they are raised - boiled for a few minutes - and THEN baked. Result is crisp crust and chewy inside.

[Mook]

The funniest thing about all of this is that, in general, the idea that the US has any form of decent food causes mild amusement for most Europeans. At the same time it seems that it's mostly Americans whining about "I can't find cheese-in-a-can"

Let's face it, all food in the US was imported from other cultures (what did Native American Indians eat?)

You can find almost all raw ingredients here, if you try. (although the Oregano probably comes from Europe rather than NY)

[jmakinen]

You can find almost all raw ingredients here, if you try. (although the Oregano probably comes from Europe rather than NY)

Of course NOW you can - but when I came 100 years ago it was basically unheard of - nor could you get real pasta, fresh mushrooms, olive oil and myriad others!. Actually it has only been the last 15 years or so that much available. First step was getting rid of License office - 2nd was joining EU - and in the background increased travel by Finns together with immigration INTO Finland from Asia, southern Europe, etc. Please trust me 'trying' used to be coming back with 25 kg suitcases!!!

USA has all kinds of junk food - and much horrible stuff à la Saarioinen and HK. But there are also many places to get great stuff - restaurants, shops, etc - but not often in Peoria, Il - that's why I was surprised and pleased to find good bagels in Charleston, SC. One problem with imported food in US is that it is often expensive and restricted to the bankers. But there are shops like Trader Joe's that offer great stuff at almost cheap prices

[sammy]

The funniest thing about all of this is that, in general, the idea that the US has any form of decent food causes mild amusement for most Europeans.

It's not that, IMO the "funny" thing is how people in general seem surprised when foodstuff "A" is not similar (if it indeed is available in some variety) to what they're used to have at home... and certainly Finns aren't any better: once abroad we moan "why can't I find proper karjalanpiirakka here...". At the end of the day it's a bit silly to start arguing about origins or originality of this or that food. Almost without exception, at some point or another (if you go back in culinary history) you'll come to the point that essential ingredient X was in fact originally brought from some other country / culture that you nowadays associate it with.

Speaking of bagels, would Kosher Deli have any of the "East European style" variety... do they bake anything, haven't visited the shop? After all, the bagels IIRC are a "Jewish thing" (and therefore it's not surprising at all that they're available in NY & other parts of USA... Finland did not have millions of Eastern Europeans immigrating here with their culinary traditions, that's the simple answer to "why" posted by the OP)

As an aside, regarding the availablility of certain ingredients... J, are you familiar with this book at all? If not, check if your local library has it, it could be a trip back to memory lane for you. Times really are different nowadays from what they were in the late 60's/early 70's.

[jmakinen]

Times really are different nowadays from what they were in the late 60's/early 70's.

Exactly!!! - and probably much also due to 'complainers' like JT and JM and ...

Next time you're in Barcelona have a look at the big open market there (tho under a roof) and see what more MIGHT be on the way - and who knows - maybe even at reasonable prices.

btw - the only pizza available when I came was at Rodolfo's in K-haka - and paradoxically one of the really inferior ones available in Finland today.

------------------

And Alko probably had 3 or something like that red wines - one of them being an Algerian one that was surely made from fermented geraniums - name has usually been on tip of my tongue - maybe someone else remembers.

[FinnGuyHelsinki]

So what's the difference between a bagel and 'vesirinkeli'?

[jmakinen]

So what's the difference between a bagel and 'vesirinkeli'?

Well not to coin a phrase but like 'night and day' - really they can't be sensibly compared - only similarities are round, hole and wheat used to make

and that's not to say a vesirinkeli can't be good if well-prepared - just VERY different items

[jmakinen]

there was an 'error 500' and message repeated

[Upphew]

(what did Native American Indians eat?)

Popcorn!

[FinnGuyHelsinki]

Well not to coin a phrase but like 'night and day' - really they can't be sensibly compared - only similarities are round, hole and wheat used to make

and that's not to say a vesirinkeli can't be good if well-prepared - just VERY different items

The reason I asked is that I have no idea what a 'real' bagel is like, just to know that they're not sold in Finland doesn't get one very far.

[sammy]

Times really are different nowadays from what they were in the late 60's/early 70's.

Exactly!!! - and probably much also due to 'complainers' like JT and JM and ...

Well, as you surely must know it's one thing to actually do something about the general availability of X than to merely bemoan its absence on a forum mostly filled with expats. The former - the latter 'nuff said. (And this not directed at you personally, but as a general remark.)

The book I mentioned indeed is interesting, and the wine example is why I thought of it in the first place (the recipe there for Sangria says that the required Sangre de Toro (sic!) is unfortunately only available from 'wine countries' ) I was too young at the time to have first-hand experience of that "Algerian red wine" era, but throughout the book this 3-wine selection becomes pretty evident - wines are hardly mentioned at all, although there are some bottles used as props in the photographs. Otherwise the recipes are actually rather good and varied, even if they do show their age. Munakoiso is referred to as munahedelmä and valkosipuli is kynsilaukka and so on...

Next time you're in Barcelona have a look at the big open market there (tho under a roof) and see what more MIGHT be on the way

Tripe? Euro breakdown? Daily deliveries fresh Mediterranean fish or squid at the local supermarkets in Kajaani?

Have you checked the Kosher Deli? What do they sell?

[jmakinen]

Well, as you surely must know it's one thing to actually do something about the general availability of X than to merely bemoan its absence on a forum mostly filled with expats. The former - the latter 'nuff said. (And this not directed at you personally, but as a general remark.)

Exactly!! That's why I started a company years and years ago to import special items (was total disaster - vive riisipuro) - and was thrown out of the License Office for wanting to import REAL pasta - not bread pasta. I believe was the first to import tomato paste - introduced Sharwood's Curry pastes etc - got mussels from Spain - Greek specialities - etc.

Have not just bemoaned - have spent hundreds of 'free time' hours trying to get importers interested in this or that. Also long distance calls to suppliers asking them to contact AA or BB etc.

So you SURELY have not been talking about me!

(No tripe please! Was unfortunately one of my mother's favorites. But red snapper - all kinds of clams and shellfish - absolutely!)

-------------

http://www.lubavitch.fi/templates/artic ... r-Deli.htm

Haven't been there. Could hope for some Nathan's hot dogs

[sammy]

So you SURELY have not been talking about me!

Not you obviously (I have no idea who you are) but the postings on this forum that almost invariably come up with descriptions like "horrible" "cr@p" "fiasco" etc, usually coupled with "nowhere like in the USA/Estonia/Barcelona/Burkina Faso". Pardon me for saying do, but that often sort of adds more than a slight dose of grumpymom and moanyander into the spice mix, and gives JM/JT messages that rather unmistakeable flavour But let's not argue about that anymore, just an opinion... and you know what they say about opinions

Hats off for your IRL efforts, though!

Seriously - matters of taste are intriguing. Since we're on to the why's and whynot's, just exactly why do you think Arnolds etc sell such bagels as they do? I'm sure the ones you refer to as "genuine" are very good, but why do you think they -or someone else- are not making them "East European style" (the way you'd like to see them done)?

Many of the natives seem to like Arnold's bagels (I do not fancy them myself) so I'm kind of wondering why they should be different. It's a different issue from the fact that they could be different! (Sometimes different is just different, not "worse" or "better")

red snapper - all kinds of clams and shellfish - absolutely!

Why not, yummy indeed - but isn't lugging fresh fish & seafood from the other side of Europe a bit costly/non-eco friendly (hmm so is travelling to Spain come to think of it)... at one point or another, you just need to accept that some Spanish foods are only available in Spain, etc...

Let's start another topic - why isn't Helsinki closer to Barcelona!

[jmakinen]

Not you obviously (I have no idea who you are) but the postings on this forum that almost invariably come up with descriptions like "horrible" "cr@p" "fiasco" etc, usually coupled with "nowhere like in the USA/Estonia/Barcelona/Burkina Faso". Pardon me for saying do, but that often sort of adds more than a slight dose of grumpymom and moanyander into the spice mix, and gives JM/JT messages that rather unmistakeable flavour But let's not argue about that anymore, just an opinion... and you know what they say about opinions

Hold the phone - I have MANY times told about finding good things. Good veggies Heino and Lidl. Good olive oil and yoghurt Lidl. Good bread from Pori now sold CM Ruoholahti, Etc etc.

The mentions of crap is to elicit news of where to maybe get the good stuff!!! -

Who is writing here that they parked their car in a strange way and didn't get a ticket? Or a 'foreigner' getting a note from the police telling how nice it is they came to Finland and could they be of any assistance in making them comfortable?

[jmakinen]

Many of the natives seem to like Arnold's bagels (I do not fancy them myself) so I'm kind of wondering why they should be different. It's a different issue from the fact that they could be different! (Sometimes different is just different, not "worse" or "better")

The item was 'bagels' - there are not different styles or types of bagels! There is only one basic type - but different flours and mixtures and add-ons can exist - wheat, rye, caraway seed, poppy seeds, etc. But the bagel developed in The Pale and will always be The Bagel - and made properly (or improperly unfortunately - the woman in Stockmann's responsible for bagels couldn't believe they were boiled at some point in the making.)

If one says 'pie' there are hundreds if not thousands of 'legitimate pies' - apple, Cornish pasties, lemon meringue, Liha-, etc. forever.

If Arnold wants to invent a new product - DO SO! - but don't call it a Bagel! - nor should Thomas' in US do it either.

This is the case for many many products - they ride on the name of a genuine product - thus we can be glad that Europe has developed the idea of DOP/PDO/DOC etc.

Anyone having had REAL pastrami at Katz's or Carnegie Deli in NY should call the police when they get the phony Hein pastrami from DE.

As everyone knows this could go on and on -