Status after death of Finnish spouse

[AldenG]

Once you have permanent residence, it isn't contingent on the things that secured it for you in the first place.

Of course there are some differences in security between permanent residency and citizenship. For instance, a non-citizen convicted of a serious crime might be deported where obviously a citizen would not be. I don't know quite where those boundaries run.

[Tiwaz]

Once you have permanent residence, it isn't contingent on the things that secured it for you in the first place.

Of course there are some differences in security between permanent residency and citizenship. For instance, a non-citizen convicted of a serious crime might be deported where obviously a citizen would not be. I don't know quite where those boundaries run.

I would certainly hope that residence permit based on family ties would be removed if mentioned ties are eliminated. (though in this idiotic flowerhatty system I fear I am wrong)

Thus, if your permit is on family ties or job, loss of mentioned ties = deportation. Or so it should be.

[EP]

I would certainly hope that residence permit based on family ties would be removed if mentioned ties are eliminated.

So when your spouse of 30 years dies that means that "ties are eliminated"? And you leave your home and and your kids and grandkids and be deported because you don´t have sufficient ties? You have to be kidding.

[Rosamunda]

I haven't worried about this since I am EU and working so it isn't really an issue BUT I remember when I was living in Budapest there was a small French community of little old ladies - mostly widows - who had married Hungarians and were living in difficult circumstances in Hungary. Some of them were really quite poor, others were better off (presumably because they had children who were supportng them), they all had amazing stories to tell having lived through the country's turbulent post-war history. I belonged to a French ex-pat group which organised visits to them, we would give them clothes, books and magazines, stuff like that and take them out occasionally.

When I came here and was talking one day to the former former GB ambassador's wife (I used to be on the committee of the BWA) we discussed this. She knew that in some countries stranded widows were often living in very dire circumstances since they didnt have independent pensions, or access to healthcare etc. She was not aware of any similar problems in Finland (but there are, for example, stranded widows in places like Spain). Most of the non-Finn OAPs I know here (not many) have worked here and are able to support themselves. However, chatting to my mum the other day, she was telling me about a woman she knows who lived for many years in Switzerland. She has returned to the UK now since she could not support herself in Switzerland and had some health problems but she was also struggling in the UK. Although British, she had no British pension or healthcare entitlements and no close family to support her.

So, it is certainly a good idea to think ahead and plan for the worst case scenarios...

[sinikala]

I sometimes get in to these "funks" when I start thinking about the strangest "what ifs?"

What would happen to a foreign national who's lived and worked in Finland for 30+ years, but has never secured Finnish citizenship, after the death of his/her long time Finnish husband/wife? With all the kids, the house, the friends, etc. here and the person in his/her retirement years? Would this person be sent packing back to their passport country?

I've always said "I don't need Finnish citizenship" because there really isn't a need with the passport I hold.

Have others thought about this?

As a layman, it would seem obvious to me that if you have been living, working & paying taxes here for 30 years, then you would qualify for permanent residence status independent of your residence based on marriage / family ties? So there would be little risk of being kicked out.

Here some information concerning EU citizens
http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/ ... 521_en.htm

Finland has a reciprocal "sosiaaliturvasopimus" with Canada.
https://www.varma.fi/fi/yritykset/yrity ... fault.aspx

[Rick1]

Once you have permanent residence, it isn't contingent on the things that secured it for you in the first place.

Of course there are some differences in security between permanent residency and citizenship. For instance, a non-citizen convicted of a serious crime might be deported where obviously a citizen would not be. I don't know quite where those boundaries run.

I would certainly hope that residence permit based on family ties would be removed if mentioned ties are eliminated. (though in this idiotic flowerhatty system I fear I am wrong)

Thus, if your permit is on family ties or job, loss of mentioned ties = deportation. Or so it should be.

I hope for you that Sweden, Norway and other countries will start with that. All those finns who went abroad living next to you eating all the benefits where they have not paid for.

[EP]

All those finns who went abroad living next to you eating all the benefits where they have not paid for.

You talk of those big masses from 1960´s and 70´s? They went there to work, for years there were big recruitement campaigns all over the country. And they were young with decades of time to work, so I think they payed.

[Upphew]

All those finns who went abroad living next to you eating all the benefits where they have not paid for.

You talk of those big masses from 1960´s and 70´s? They went there to work, for years there were big recruitement campaigns all over the country. And they were young with decades of time to work, so I think they payed.

No they did't: they spent their best years working abroad, paying to their system, and now they would be sent back to be a burden to Finnish health care.

[AldenG]

I would certainly hope that residence permit based on family ties would be removed if mentioned ties are eliminated. (though in this idiotic flowerhatty system I fear I am wrong)

Thus, if your permit is on family ties or job, loss of mentioned ties = deportation. Or so it should be.

Well then get your politicians to change the law so that permanent residence isn't granted for family ties or employment.

Permanent means that your status is no longer subject to periodic review. It's a fairly straightforward word.

But the fact is that most long-time foreigners in Finland have probably contributed more to the Finnish commonwealth than you yourself have contributed over the same period of time. I refer not only to taxes paid but to services provided, connections, know-how, cultural richness, etc. I think it's a fair question, for instance, whether Nokia could ever have become what it was at its peak without foreign specialists. Finland didn't become a technology powerhouse in isolation. It had a lot to do with Finns studying and working abroad (then returning) and foreigners working in Finland. Thirty years ago, a lot of us who came to Finland did so because we were recruited. In part that's because so many Finns with above-average talent and ambition chose to move away back then, participating in the brain drain and ambition drain that started in the early 1900's. When you ask them why, they often talk about a culture of jealousy, resentment, bureaucracy, sniping at success, and knee-jerk mistrust of anyone and anything new or different.

Good thing there's none of that around any more, eh?

If there's a problem with resources, maybe there should be an annual thinning of the herd irrespective of citizenship, you know. Vote the least productive, least interesting 1-2% off the island every year. I wonder how many perussuomalaiset wouldn't make the cut.

[Upphew]

But the fact is that most long-time foreigners in Finland have probably contributed more to the Finnish commonwealth than you yourself have contributed over the same period of time. I refer not only to taxes paid but to services provided, connections, know-how, cultural richness

I were with you until the last point...

[Pursuivant]

Once you have the "P" its without end date. To get sent packing I guess the widow must have caused the death... and even then its not happened...