What does :n mean?

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mulattoraver
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What does :n mean?

Post by mulattoraver » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:17 pm

Hi there, I work for a company that deals with translation into a number of European languanges, one of which is Finnish.

I have noticed that a lot of English abbreviations, when translated into Finnish, do not really change all that much except for the addition of ":n" to the end of the word

ex.

BCM is translated "BCM:n"
ECM is translated "ECM:n"
TCM is translated "TCM:n"

I know that all ofthe above are correct but it drives me nuts not knowing exactly why ":n" has to be added to the end of each of these abbreviations.

Could someone explain this to me . . . in English (or French, Spanish or Japanese)? Sorry, I haven't had the chance to study Finnish just yet. :roll:

mR



What does :n mean?

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Rosamunda
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Re: What does :n mean?

Post by Rosamunda » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:25 pm

I think it is just the genitive (possessive) suffix like 's in English.

Upphew
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Re: What does :n mean?

Post by Upphew » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:43 pm

mulattoraver wrote:ex.

BCM is translated "BCM:n"
ECM is translated "ECM:n"
TCM is translated "TCM:n"
Like penelope said, the correct translation would be BCM's = BCM:n
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/kielenopas/8.5.html
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AldenG
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Re: What does :n mean?

Post by AldenG » Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:09 pm

Is that how your agency has been doing it?
As he persisted, I was obliged to tootle him gently at first and then, seeing no improvement, to trumpet him vigorously with my horn.

Upphew
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Re: What does :n mean?

Post by Upphew » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:25 pm

AldenG wrote:Is that how your agency has been doing it?
Insert picture to your liking: http://www.google.fi/images?hl=en&q=u+r+doing+it+wrong
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Rob A.
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Re: What does :n mean?

Post by Rob A. » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:02 pm

I suppose a complete answer would be that the ":n" suffix is added when the sense of the statement requires it. This is part of the case declension paradigm involving nouns and adjectives....(also noun/adjective phrases). Typically this would be the genitive case ...possessive...or the accusative case...direct object. And more rarely, other possible declensions.

However as the link Upphew posted indicates, it can be complicated and is not consistent.

Usein sään­nöt sallivat kaksi vaihto­ehtoa (esi­mer­kik­si CEN:n ja CENin) mutta monet eivät käytä niistä kumpaakaan vaan kek­si­vät omia vaih­to­ehto­jaan (esim. CEN:in)! =
"Often rules allow two alternatives (for example CEN:n and CENin) but many use neither of these, instead create their own alternatives (for example CEN:in)!"

Jukka Aho
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Re: What does :n mean?

Post by Jukka Aho » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:26 pm

Rob A. wrote:However as the link Upphew posted indicates, it can be complicated and is not consistent.

Usein sään­nöt sallivat kaksi vaihto­ehtoa (esi­mer­kik­si CEN:n ja CENin) mutta monet eivät käytä niistä kumpaakaan vaan kek­si­vät omia vaih­to­ehto­jaan (esim. CEN:in)! =
"Often rules allow two alternatives (for example CEN:n and CENin) but many use neither of these, instead create their own alternatives (for example CEN:in)!"
Well those inconsistent people are the same that would use “of” instead of “have” in English or “there” instead of “their”, have problems with “it’s” and “its” etc. So you’d get big red marks all over your paper if you were to use your “own alternatives” for the case suffixes and someone would be assigned to score your text... not to say people with only a feeble grasp of spelling and punctuation won’t do some strange things in the wild.
znark

Rob A.
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Re: What does :n mean?

Post by Rob A. » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:06 pm

Jukka Aho wrote:
Rob A. wrote:However as the link Upphew posted indicates, it can be complicated and is not consistent.

Usein sään­nöt sallivat kaksi vaihto­ehtoa (esi­mer­kik­si CEN:n ja CENin) mutta monet eivät käytä niistä kumpaakaan vaan kek­si­vät omia vaih­to­ehto­jaan (esim. CEN:in)! =
"Often rules allow two alternatives (for example CEN:n and CENin) but many use neither of these, instead create their own alternatives (for example CEN:in)!"
Well those inconsistent people are the same that would use “of” instead of “have” in English or “there” instead of “their”, have problems with “it’s” and “its” etc. So you’d get big red marks all over your paper if you were to use your “own alternatives” for the case suffixes and someone would be assigned to score your text... not to say people with only a feeble grasp of spelling and punctuation won’t do some strange things in the wild.
To the OP....as you can likely surmise from this exchange, there isn't a lot of room in Finnish for "inconsistency".... :wink:

English is much less consistent...as can be attested by attempting to write an English sentence without using the vowels. Often the meaning is not affected at all. I would suggest, though I'm still at the novice level, that would be nearly impossible to do in Finnish....

Jukka: Just this morning on the radio I heard about a website dealing specifically with the use of English homophones.... It is called something like:

"www.getyourdamnhomophoneswrite.org/com/net???" ....but I couldn't find it.... Maybe your sleuthing skills are more refined than mine...???...:D

Here's an interesting diagram:

Image

...a list of one of the more iteresting English homonyms...homograph??...homophone??..:

bow – a long wooden stick with horse hair that is used to play certain string instruments such as the violin
bow – to bend forward at the waist in respect (e.g. "bow down")
bow – the front of the ship (e.g. "bow and stern")
bow – the weapon which shoots arrows (e.g. "bow and arrow")
bow – a kind of tied ribbon (e.g. bow on a present, a bowtie)
bow – to bend outward at the sides (e.g. a "bow-legged" cowboy)
bough – a branch on a tree. (e.g. "when the bough breaks...")
bō – a long staff, usually made of tapered hard wood or bamboo ...[I've never heard of this word before...borrowed, I guess, from an Asian language.]
beau – a male paramour

[edit: typo]
Last edited by Rob A. on Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

mulattoraver
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Re: What does :n mean?

Post by mulattoraver » Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:30 am

To everyone that posted here:

Thank you so much. It is going to take me a day to sort through all of this but in the end it will be worth it!!!!!! :ochesey: :ochesey: :ochesey:

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Pursuivant
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Re: What does :n mean?

Post by Pursuivant » Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:39 am

mulattoraver wrote: I know that all ofthe above are correct but it drives me nuts not knowing exactly why ":n" has to be added to the end of each of these abbreviations.
Also because of the grammar structure.

In English you would say "of the BCM"
In Finnish you would say "BCM's"

so thats why the genitive suffix. the genitive is used instead of such forms as they do not exist.
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Something wicked this way comes."

Jukka Aho
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Re: What does :n mean?

Post by Jukka Aho » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:57 am

Rob A. wrote:
Jukka Aho wrote:
Rob A. wrote:However as the link Upphew posted indicates, it can be complicated and is not consistent.

Usein sään­nöt sallivat kaksi vaihto­ehtoa (esi­mer­kik­si CEN:n ja CENin) mutta monet eivät käytä niistä kumpaakaan vaan kek­si­vät omia vaih­to­ehto­jaan (esim. CEN:in)! =
"Often rules allow two alternatives (for example CEN:n and CENin) but many use neither of these, instead create their own alternatives (for example CEN:in)!"
Well those inconsistent people are the same that would use “of” instead of “have” in English or “there” instead of “their”, have problems with “it’s” and “its” etc. So you’d get big red marks all over your paper if you were to use your “own alternatives” for the case suffixes and someone would be assigned to score your text... not to say people with only a feeble grasp of spelling and punctuation won’t do some strange things in the wild.
To the OP....as you can likely surmise from this exchange, there isn't a lot of room in Finnish for "inconsistency".... :wink:
Hey, Korpela himself used the exclamation point in that sentence to indicate his disapproval... ;) I.e. he admits you are likely to encounter weird variations of the theme going against the authoritative spelling/grammar/punctuation rules taught in schools and in grammar books (and also laid out on his site), but is “shocked” at that sort of thing...

That Venn diagram is pretty clever...
znark

Rob A.
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Re: What does :n mean?

Post by Rob A. » Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:15 pm

Jukka Aho wrote:Hey, Korpela himself used the exclamation point in that sentence to indicate his disapproval... ;) I.e. he admits you are likely to encounter weird variations of the theme going against the authoritative spelling/grammar/punctuation rules taught in schools and in grammar books (and also laid out on his site), but is “shocked” at that sort of thing...
:D I did notice that exclamation point... though I suppose in Finnish an exclamation point should be taken much more seriously than in English... Unfortunately in English it is now often used simply to get you to look at something that might not otherwise interest you ... Those damn advertisers, you know!!!... :wink:

And I finally found the link on homophones I heard about yesterday...the language the guy uses is rather crude and there isn't a lot of material, but it's somewhat interesting....

http://learnyourdamnhomophones.com/

Here's another string of them:

write
right
rite
wright

I think any list over three is pretty good...and, of course, different pronunciation and dialect zones can have different lists....:D


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