korpi

[Satish]

While enjoying a fantastic spring day in Nuuksio yesterday, I came across the word korpi on a road sign. My Finnish friend said that it was a slang for backwater, backwoods etc which wiktionary readily confirms. Wiktionary also defines korpi as a type of terrain classified between kangasmaa and suo types. In this context, I came across this sentence :

Korvet ovat syntyneet ravinteikkaan ja tuoreen kangasmetsän soistuttua.

What has got me stuck in a spring-melt suo is the word soistuttua. Soistua is "to become a swamp" intransitive. Now how can soistuttua be a passive past participle - ie. something made the terrain make itself into a suo????? Apua!!! I am sure there is a much easier explanation...

By the way, enjoy the weather!!!

[Jukka Aho]

While enjoying a fantastic spring day in Nuuksio yesterday, I came across the word korpi on a road sign. My Finnish friend said that it was a slang for backwater, backwoods etc which wiktionary readily confirms.

The slang meaning (calling some place or someone’s whereabouts “backwoods” in a mildly derogatory sense) is of course only secondary to the primary meaning:

Wiktionary also defines korpi as a type of terrain classified between kangasmaa and suo types.

Yes, korpi is the kind of coniferous forest which grows on a relatively damp soil. Or a type of coniferous swamp, whichever way you want to look at it. (Or is bog a better word here?) Korpi is also used a lot in national romantic settings (poems, lyrics) where deep forests and love for them are seen as something very Finnish. Kuulkaa korpeimme kuiskintaa...

In this context, I came across this sentence :

Korvet ovat syntyneet ravinteikkaan ja tuoreen kangasmetsän soistuttua.

What has got me stuck in a spring-melt suo is the word soistuttua. Soistua is "to become a swamp" intransitive. Now how can soistuttua be a passive past participle - ie. something made the terrain make itself into a suo????? Apua!!! I am sure there is a much easier explanation... :ohno:

This is a so-called temporaalirakenne (VISK § 543, 544) (“temporal structure”, “temporal adjunct”?) See page 15 in this PDF, and also the page 26 here.

Edit: Of course, the grammar is not too important here. What’s important is that it means “Korpi type woods have formed after a rich-in-nutrients and ‘fresh’ [young, damp] kangas type of forest has turned (more) swampy.” So soistua means “to become (more) swampy, swamp-like” and soistuttua (plus possible possessive suffix) means “after having become (more) swampy, swamp-like”. Juosta means “to run”, juostua (plus possible possessive suffix) means “after having run”, etc. Maybe it’s the -tua ending in the infinitive which confuses you with soistua?

[kalmisto]

In everyday language the word "korpi" is often used to mean the same as "erämaa" ( wilderness ) :
http://www.eudict.com/?word=korpi&go=Search&lang=fineng

Korpiklaani :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korpiklaani

[Satish]

Edit: Of course, the grammar is not too important here. What’s important is that it means “Korpi type woods have formed after a rich-in-nutrients and ‘fresh’ [young, damp] kangas type of forest has turned (more) swampy.” So soistua means “to become (more) swampy, swamp-like” and soistuttua (plus possible possessive suffix) means “after having become (more) swampy, swamp-like”. Juosta means “to run”, juostua (plus possible possessive suffix) means “after having run”, etc. Maybe it’s the -tua ending in the infinitive which confuses you with soistua?

Actually, your temporal adjunct explanation worked for me. Thanks!!! I knew it was some kind of adverb etc but could not go beyond that...

By the way, the pdf you mention, on page 15 talks about another form 'lukien' versus lukiessaan but does not go into much further. Is there any practical difference these two??

[Satish]

Korpiklaani :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korpiklaani

Talk about music cross over!!!

[Jukka Aho]

By the way, the pdf you mention, on page 15 talks about another form 'lukien' versus lukiessaan but does not go into much further. Is there any practical difference these two??

They can often be used in almost a similar way, but they’re still different.

Lukien can answer the questions “How?”, “By what means?”, “In which way?”, “In which manner?”, “In which fashion?”.

Lukiessaan doesn’t answer questions of manner but rather temporal questions related to simultaneous actions such as “While doing what?” Also, lukiessaan is often followed by or related to an explanation of some kind of an interruption that came along.

Maybe the simplest way to exemplify the difference would be as follows:

Poika käveli kadulla kirjaa lukien.
“A boy walked down the street reading a book.”

Poika käveli kadulla kirjaa lukiessaan.
“A boy walked down the street while reading a book.”

Kirjaa lukien pojalle tuli mieleen uusi ajatus.
“By (the means of) reading the book, the boy got a new idea.” (Reading the book was essential in this process; maybe the content inspired the boy somehow.)

Kirjaa lukiessaan pojalle tuli mieleen uusi ajatus.
“As the boy was reading the book, he got a new idea.” (He got the idea while reading the book... but the book itself, or the action of reading it, might or might not have been related to the formation of this new idea.)

[Pursuivant]

Tämä asia alkoi kyllä korpeamaan.

[onkko]

Tämä asia alkoi kyllä korpeamaan.

Korpeamiseen auttaa korpikuusen kyynel.

[Rob A.]

Korpeamiseen auttaa korpikuusen kyynel.

Despite the play on words, I guess this indirectly answers a question I had. So the trees that would grow well in a "korpi" are "kuuset"??.... I checked wikipedia and I see there seems to be only one species of spruce in Finland....???...

[Aside: Maybe not too surprising... apparently recent DNA studies suggest the "spruce" originated in North America.... and spread to Asia... I can think of about half a dozen species in Canada, all with their own ecological niche, though often tending to hybridization at zone boundaries... ]

[Rob A.]

This is a so-called temporaalirakenne (VISK § 543, 544) (“temporal structure”, “temporal adjunct”?) See page 15 in this PDF, and also the page 26 here.

Ahhh...Thanks!!!... A couple of interesting looking academic papers that I don't think I've encountered before ... I'll read them when I have a bit more time....

[Jukka Aho]

Korpeamiseen auttaa korpikuusen kyynel.

Despite the play on words,

There’s also Kiira Korpi. Some would undoubtedly think of her as the most important Korpi we have.

I guess this indirectly answers a question I had. So the trees that would grow well in a "korpi" are "kuuset"??....

Wikipedia mentions Picea abies (metsäkuusi), then goes on to differentiate between the subspecies Picea abies abies (euroopankuusi) and Picea abies obovata (siperiankuusi), of which the latter grows in Lapland. This article also suggests some consider siperiankuusi to be a species on its own. Their hybrid is called Picea × fennica. See here as well.

Edit: Oh, as for the trees that grow in a korpi... see here. (And the metsätyyppioppi article might interest you as well.)