"sano minun sanoneen"

[kalmisto]

I wondered what "Sano minun sanoneen" would be in English but could not think of anything. Here it is :
http://gratis-ordbok.se/search.php?id=3356248

I just wanted to share this with you language buffs.

To be perfectly honest I did not know the EXACT meaning of "sano minun sanoneen" ( "tell them you got it from me" ). Very few ( if any ) people use that expression today.

[Rob A.]

I wondered what "Sano minun sanoneen" would be in English but could not think of anything. Here it is :
http://gratis-ordbok.se/search.php?id=3356248

I just wanted to share this with you language buffs.

To be perfectly honest I did not know the EXACT meaning of "sano minun sanoneen" ( "tell them you got it from me" ). Very few ( if any ) people use that expression today.

Hmmmm... I think it must be highly idiomatic.... Literally, the first two words would be:

sano = second person imperative... (you) say!!....
minun...genitive form ...."my"

sanoneen.... Now this word has me stumped.... It seems to be a noun with some sort of possessive suffix, but I'm not sure... Maybe it it's a colloquial form of the comitative case.... "with my sayings"....Just a guess... ???...

[onkko]

Its "tell (them) this is what i said" but im not aware that there is similar in english.
"tell them that i said this will cause problems" "Tell them that i said this wouldnt end well" "tell them that i said this will break up" "tell them that i said this will be great success" etc.
Its like "told you so" but before it actually happens. You use it when you think something isnt actually going to end like others think, mostly in negative way.
First thing i thought was "sano minun sanoneen että tästä ei hyvä heilu", "tell them that i said no good will follow from this" (no, not word to word translation but meaning translation, i have no idea why good wouldnt "rock" or how it even could "rock" or even what in hell that rocking means. I take it as it has been centuries, if it doesnt rock its bad \,,/ )

[Rob A.]

Its "tell (them) this is what i said" but im not aware that there is similar in english.
"tell them that i said this will cause problems" "Tell them that i said this wouldnt end well" "tell them that i said this will break up" "tell them that i said this will be great success" etc.
Its like "told you so" but before it actually happens. You use it when you think something isnt actually going to end like others think, mostly in negative way.
First thing i thought was "sano minun sanoneen että tästä ei hyvä heilu", "tell them that i said no good will follow from this" (no, not word to word translation but meaning translation, i have no idea why good wouldnt "rock" or how it even could "rock" or even what in hell that rocking means. I take it as it has been centuries, if it doesnt rock its bad \,,/ )

Ahh..thanks, onkko... I was thinking that sanoneen might have a negative "flavour" about it.... So I guess that would mean that sanoneen is derived from the potential connegative form sanone..?? Does the -en suffix indicate the third person singular possessive or the illative case ..."into"...???? ...

[Edit: So maybe this is an example of a second infinitive verb with an instructive ending ...??? carrying the sense of "by means of'...??? Apparently, the instructive case is relatively rare and when it does appear it tends to be in fixed expressions...presumably indicating some long standing ancient origin...which seems to be the situation here.. ???]

[onkko]

Ahh..thanks, onkko... I was thinking that sanoneen might have a negative "flavour" about it.... So I guess that would mean that sanoneen is derived from the potential connegative form sanone..?? Does the -en suffix indicate the third person singular possessive or the illative case ..."into"...???? ...

No negative to me and no idea where it comes from exactly, imo its from "sana" and as you know i have no idea about any illatives and friends
Sana(basic) = word (alussa oli sana ) , sanoa = to say. sanoneen = one(s) who said (signular and plural, some entity what said). I cant translate this exactly but if i think too much about it ill collide with sanomattomuuksiissankohankohan and my mind explodes so you have just trust me .

[Rob A.]

Ahh..thanks, onkko... I was thinking that sanoneen might have a negative "flavour" about it.... So I guess that would mean that sanoneen is derived from the potential connegative form sanone..?? Does the -en suffix indicate the third person singular possessive or the illative case ..."into"...???? ...

No negative to me and no idea where it comes from exactly, imo its from "sana" and as you know i have no idea about any illatives and friends
Sana(basic) = word (alussa oli sana ) , sanoa = to say. sanoneen = one(s) who said (signular and plural, some entity what said). I cant translate this exactly but if i think too much about it ill collide with sanomattomuuksiissankohankohan and my mind explodes so you have just trust me .

Thanks onkko...I added a bit more to my previous post just before you posted .... Maybe there is another more formal way to say this, which even if no one actually speaks that way, might make more sense to a humble ulkomaalaispuhuja....???...

[onkko]

Thanks onkko...I added a bit more to my previous post just before you posted .... Maybe there is another more formal way to say this, which even if no one actually speaks that way, might make more sense to a humble ulkomaalaispuhuja....???...

hmm.. if i would like to translate/make more modern i would say "Kerro minun sanoneen (että), kerro että sanoin", does this help?

[Jukka Aho]

sano = second person imperative... (you) say!!....
minun...genitive form ...."my"

sanoneen.... Now this word has me stumped.... It seems to be a noun with some sort of possessive suffix, but I'm not sure... Maybe it it's a colloquial form of the comitative case.... "with my sayings"....Just a guess... ???... :D

It’s the active past participle, sanonut, in the genitive... no?

Sano minun sanoneen. = Sano (niille), että olen sanonut (tämän). = Tell (them) that I (have (already)) said (it). When they wonder about this “surprising” but-expected-by-me outcome or result, keep in mind what I just said; I already predicted it at this point.

Sano minun juosseen. = Sano (niille), että olen juossut (puheena olleen matkan tms.). Tell (them) that I (have (already)) ran.

Sano minun tehneen se. = Sano (niille), että olen tehnyt sen. = Tell them I have done the thing (we were discussing about.)

[Rob A.]

Thanks onkko...I added a bit more to my previous post just before you posted .... Maybe there is another more formal way to say this, which even if no one actually speaks that way, might make more sense to a humble ulkomaalaispuhuja....???...

hmm.. if i would like to translate/make more modern i would say "Kerro minun sanoneen (että), kerro että sanoin", does this help?

Well, a bit...kerro että sanoin..."Repeat that which I said."....I assume kerro = kertaa...???

[Rob A.]

sano = second person imperative... (you) say!!....
minun...genitive form ...."my"

sanoneen.... Now this word has me stumped.... It seems to be a noun with some sort of possessive suffix, but I'm not sure... Maybe it it's a colloquial form of the comitative case.... "with my sayings"....Just a guess... ???...

It’s the active past participle, sanonut, in the genitive... no?

Sano minun sanoneen. = Sano (niille), että olen sanonut (tämän). = Tell (them) that I (have (already)) said (it). When they wonder about this “surprising” but-expected-by-me outcome or result, keep in mind what I just said; I already predicted it at this point.

Sano minun juosseen. = Sano (niille), että olen juossut (puheena olleen matkan tms.). Tell (them) that I (have (already)) ran.

Sano minun tehneen se. = Sano (niille), että olen tehnyt sen. = Tell them I have done the thing (we were discussing about.)

Thanks Jukka...I'll analyze this a bit later....First I need some lunch...

[Jukka Aho]

:D Well, a bit...kerro että sanoin..."Repeat that which I said."....I assume kerro = kertaa...???

The verb kertoa means just “to (re)tell”. Except in arithmetics where it means “to multiplicate”. (Kertolasku = multiplication.)

“Repeat that which I said.” = Toista mitä sanoin. / Toista se, mitä juuri sanoin. (toistaa = “to play back”, “to echo back”, “to repeat (an action or something)”)

There’s a related verb kerrata which means “to repeat (a story or instruction)”, “to recap”, “to reiterate”, “to rehearse/practice (a text or something)”, mainly used in situations where you’re aiming to learn something “by heart”.

Kertaan vielä kielioppisäännöt ennen nukkumaanmenoa.

[Rob A.]

sano = second person imperative... (you) say!!....
minun...genitive form ...."my"

sanoneen.... Now this word has me stumped.... It seems to be a noun with some sort of possessive suffix, but I'm not sure... Maybe it it's a colloquial form of the comitative case.... "with my sayings"....Just a guess... ???...

It’s the active past participle, sanonut, in the genitive... no?

Sano minun sanoneen. = Sano (niille), että olen sanonut (tämän). = Tell (them) that I (have (already)) said (it). When they wonder about this “surprising” but-expected-by-me outcome or result, keep in mind what I just said; I already predicted it at this point.

Sano minun juosseen. = Sano (niille), että olen juossut (puheena olleen matkan tms.). Tell (them) that I (have (already)) ran.

Sano minun tehneen se. = Sano (niille), että olen tehnyt sen. = Tell them I have done the thing (we were discussing about.)

Got it!!...the difficulty comes from the understood, but omitted words... \sanoneen...the genitive form of sanonut....So, literally, something like: "Tell (them) (it) of my saying!" ...so in regular English: "Tell them I have (already) said it!"

To summarize: Sanoneen is an active past participle verbal adjective in the genitive case... I think ...

[skandagupta]

"Mark my words" ( "i told you so,you wouldna listen to reason")

[Jukka Aho]

"Mark my words" ( "i told you so,you wouldna listen to reason")

“Mark my words” is a good idiomatic equivalent of sano minun sanoneen, but the words-to-be-marked are not necessarily targeted at the person you’re talking to.

Sano minun sanoneen, että naapurin Matin parkour-harrastus päättyy vielä huonosti. (=“ends up in a bad way, eventually”)

[silk]

"Mark my words" ( "i told you so,you wouldna listen to reason")

“Mark my words” is a good idiomatic equivalent of sano minun sanoneen, but the words-to-be-marked are not necessarily targeted at the person you’re talking to.

Sano minun sanoneen, että naapurin Matin parkour-harrastus päättyy vielä huonosti. (=“ends up in a bad way, eventually”)

In the expression "mark my words", the words to be marked are not necessarily targeted at the person you are talking to, either. (If I understood your point correctly)