father rights in finland

[sandfar]

Hello everybody,

I do have few question regarding father's right in Finland:

To start with it I state that I don't have a Finnish citizenship or residency and at this point I don't intend to apply for one.

...But... since I came here few times on various work contracts I started to date one Finnish woman who remained pregnant... she is 4 weeks pregnant at this moment.

now she wants to keep the baby regardless or my choice if I want or not to stray in Finland... I read that unmarried father usually don't have much power over their own children in Finland so now I ask again you people what do you think about this matter:

is it legally right that a woman to keep a baby regardless of father choice ? ( I think no one can stop a woman give birth because it's her body ---but what about moral point of view from father side ? --- )
what rights do I have on this child in case he/she get born here but I don't want to get married to mother and if I don't change my citizenship/residence ? ( please note that I'm from a European country so I don't need visa etc )
is there any chance to win the custody over this child ?

thank you!

[ajdias]

Gee dude,
you must be in panic, because your message doesn't really make much sense. From a regular human being pov, that is.

is it legally right that a woman to keep a baby regardless of father choice ? ( I think no one can stop a woman give birth because it's her body ---but what about moral point of view from father side ? --- )

Ask rather if is moral for the father to insist for the child to be aborted...

what rights do I have on this child in case he/she get born here but I don't want to get married to mother and if I don't change my citizenship/residence ? ( please note that I'm from a European country so I don't need visa etc )

The unborn child has the right to a loving father and mother.

is there any chance to win the custody over this child ?

Why would you want it. Or deserve it?
No, you've got not chance.

There quite a few entertaining and informative threads here, have a look.

[odon]

,

now you know why the blond came on to you! she wanted a donor!! haa haa !
Welcome to Viking contry!!

[sandfar]

Gee dude,
you must be in panic, because your message doesn't really make much sense. From a regular human being pov, that is.

is it legally right that a woman to keep a baby regardless of father choice ? ( I think no one can stop a woman give birth because it's her body ---but what about moral point of view from father side ? --- )

Ask rather if is moral for the father to insist for the child to be aborted...

what rights do I have on this child in case he/she get born here but I don't want to get married to mother and if I don't change my citizenship/residence ? ( please note that I'm from a European country so I don't need visa etc )

The unborn child has the right to a loving father and mother.

is there any chance to win the custody over this child ?

Why would you want it. Or deserve it?
No, you've got not chance.

There quite a few entertaining and informative threads here, have a look.

thanks for you answer

on first question I reply with :
- we are 6 billions people and growing ..why have one more born with no love around ?
- a child must be born where father and mother want to have it .... equal right ...
- she has also another kid...
- if I can't stay in Finland I may be in a position to have a child that I am not able to speak with ( cause I don't speak Finnish so far )...
- is it moral for my fellow humans to have as many kids as chance gives ?..
- it's not like he is 7 year old and I decide this ...plus, please don't think it's easy for me too...after all it's mine too...

but I do have one more question for you: moral from what point of view ?

as for the panic mode you are right and for sure I won't take a decision under panic mode..even that I don't think a have many choices

[sandfar]

,

now you know why the blond came on to you! she wanted a donor!! haa haa !
Welcome to Viking contry!!

....well..please be my guess to learn from my experience

[Rip]

is it legally right that a woman to keep a baby regardless of father choice ?

Keep or abort is totally up to her.

what rights do I have on this child in case he/she get born here but I don't want to get married to mother and if I don't change my citizenship/residence ?

Your citizenship does not affect really anything. Even as formally recognized father in good terms with the mother your role in the life of the child would have to be minimal if you don't actually live here.

For starters you should try to keep in good terms with the mother. After the child is born you can go and have acknowledge officially your paternity (she can have it done without your co-operation if she wants anyway). If you are not living together at the time she will likely want you to pay some money monthly for child support (you can agree on it or she can take you to court) - and then there is the custody issue, but if you're not married or never much lived together I think it is custody for her and her alone unless she agrees on something else.

There is public official called "lastenvalvoja" in her home town that can help you make your agreement legally valid, if you have an agreement. You can probably get also get some general advice about the legal aspects. Don't sign anything effects of which you don't fully understand (except perhaps the paternity confirmation if you don't have any actual doubt on the issue - she can have that forced anyway with bit of you DNA taken without your co-operation if necessary)

is there any chance to win the custody over this child ?

Is she abusing hard drugs or something similar? If the answer is 'no' then I think the chances for that are zero.

[QUINCY]

,

now you know why the blond came on to you! she wanted a donor!! haa haa !
Welcome to Viking contry!!

....well..please be my guess to learn from my experience

Be in peace with the mother settle out of court, keep your child do not abort it who knows what this child would become in future ? Be happy you will be called isä soon ( Isä arabic translation of Jesus ).

[Lisa 15]

on first question I reply with :
- we are 6 billions people and growing ..why have one more born with no love around ?
- a child must be born where father and mother want to have it .... equal right ...
- she has also another kid...
- if I can't stay in Finland I may be in a position to have a child that I am not able to speak with ( cause I don't speak Finnish so far )...
- is it moral for my fellow humans to have as many kids as chance gives ?..
- it's not like he is 7 year old and I decide this ...plus, please don't think it's easy for me too...after all it's mine too...

That is why you have birth control pills and rubbers of all kind... If she's pregnant, you must have been aware of the risks at some point, the baby didn't come out of the blue. Are you sure you're the dad?

[Tiwaz]

on first question I reply with :
- we are 6 billions people and growing ..why have one more born with no love around ?

Who says there is no love? Mother might, and likely would, greatly love that child. You on other hand... Are irrelevant. Love or no love.

- a child must be born where father and mother want to have it .... equal right ...

Nope. You have done your part. You are not married, so mother has full custody and rights over the child.

- she has also another kid...

So what? This is not China. And her having another kid shows she most likely knows what she is getting into.

- if I can't stay in Finland I may be in a position to have a child that I am not able to speak with ( cause I don't speak Finnish so far )...

So what?

- is it moral for my fellow humans to have as many kids as chance gives ?..

Hint, Finland. Not China. We have all the space we could want to double our number and still be rather sparsely populated.

- it's not like he is 7 year old and I decide this ...plus, please don't think it's easy for me too...after all it's mine too...

It is far easier for you. You are not one who ends up in the chair to have the operation done.
For you to have any say in this would mean that you have right to violate body of a woman against her will.

It just is not done here in civilized world.

but I do have one more question for you: moral from what point of view ?

Moral code of locals. Trumps your one.

as for the panic mode you are right and for sure I won't take a decision under panic mode..even that I don't think a have many choices

I'll help you avoid making decisions.

You have no choices. Mommy has all the cards, you have none. Suck it up sunshine! Whatever she decides trumps whatever you decide.

[sandfar]

now she wants to keep the baby regardless or my choice if I want or not to stray in Finland... I read that unmarried father usually don't have much power over their own children in Finland so now I ask again you people what do you think about this matter:

Playing the victim now, eh? Where were your thought processes when you were getting laid without a condom? (yeah, yeah..I know what many will say here but let's be serious) Unfortunately, it's now the child that needs to live with the stupidity for the rest of its life ie. who's my biological Dad?

Have you been tested for HIV and other STD's (Sexually Transmitted Diseases)?

I don't play any victim I just seek more points of view.
I do understand that can't force any woman to not keep the baby ... I really do....so at least I want to understand if I can't change

[ajdias]

[

thanks for you answer

on first question I reply with :
- we are 6 billions people and growing ..why have one more born with no love around ?
- a child must be born where father and mother want to have it .... equal right ...
- she has also another kid...
- if I can't stay in Finland I may be in a position to have a child that I am not able to speak with ( cause I don't speak Finnish so far )...
- is it moral for my fellow humans to have as many kids as chance gives ?..
- it's not like he is 7 year old and I decide this ...plus, please don't think it's easy for me too...after all it's mine too...

but I do have one more question for you: moral from what point of view ?

as for the panic mode you are right and for sure I won't take a decision under panic mode..even that I don't think a have many choices

Hopefully at some point you'll realise that this line of though is useless and you'll start thinking "what can I do/am willing to/will have to do".

How old are you?
I've been in your situation. I was 23, close to graduation from Uni, immature as hell. When I later told at home that I was moving to Hki my mother wanted me to forget about. I guess she, too, panicked...
For me moving here was the right decision. But starting a family with the woman, was not, in hindsight, the best decision.
But those were my decisions.Is it up to you to decide how you want to deal with it.

I know a guy who is a miserable c*nt, he only lives here bc of his child. One of the few people I'd put on the ex-friend category.
I know another guy here that is a great person, someone that makes everyone else around feel good. When moving to Finland he left behind a child from a previous relationship.
Of course I know nothing of how good a father they are, nor am I concerned about it. I am just pointing that your choices will be yours alone and there can be several "right answers".

[sandfar]

[

thanks for you answer

on first question I reply with :
- we are 6 billions people and growing ..why have one more born with no love around ?
- a child must be born where father and mother want to have it .... equal right ...
- she has also another kid...
- if I can't stay in Finland I may be in a position to have a child that I am not able to speak with ( cause I don't speak Finnish so far )...
- is it moral for my fellow humans to have as many kids as chance gives ?..
- it's not like he is 7 year old and I decide this ...plus, please don't think it's easy for me too...after all it's mine too...

but I do have one more question for you: moral from what point of view ?

as for the panic mode you are right and for sure I won't take a decision under panic mode..even that I don't think a have many choices

Hopefully at some point you'll realise that this line of though is useless and you'll start thinking "what can I do/am willing to/will have to do".

How old are you?
I've been in your situation. I was 23, close to graduation from Uni, immature as hell. When I later told at home that I was moving to Hki my mother wanted me to forget about. I guess she, too, panicked...
For me moving here was the right decision. But starting a family with the woman, was not, in hindsight, the best decision.
But those were my decisions.Is it up to you to decide how you want to deal with it.

I know a guy who is a miserable c*nt, he only lives here bc of his child. One of the few people I'd put on the ex-friend category.
I know another guy here that is a great person, someone that makes everyone else around feel good. When moving to Finland he left behind a child from a previous relationship.
Of course I know nothing of how good a father they are, nor am I concerned about it. I am just pointing that your choices will be yours alone and there can be several "right answers".

I'm 30

Of course I think what can i do/will do / have to ... it seems that in life if not always up to me to decide what happen. Situation is not desperate but has more risks that I was willing to take at this point in life ..but that's that and in the end I can only try my best even I will fail sometimes.

[missjingleighpoo5]

as a believer in ''pro-choice'', i sometimes feel sorry for men when they know they are in no position to care for/don't want a child, but because it is the woman's choice in the end, they really get no say. but, at the same time, i think being more careful (condoms, pulling out, etc) should be something the man needs to do and be more active about.

birth control is another option, but not every woman can take it due to allergies/hormones/adverse side effects etc. (do not know if this was the case here, but just wanted to make that point). But that being said, birth control is NOT always 100% effective anyway and therefore other things should be done as well.

Since the lady you were seeing already had a child, you should have considered two things: 1) she is obviously fertile 2) it is probably harder for a woman to have an abortion after already having one child.

I do have one question: why were you sleeping with her if you had no intentions of furthering the relationship to a more committed status??

I know that in US, the father can sign over his rights completely, which makes him completely unconnected to the child. If something were to happen to the mother, he could not take over custody. (But why should he be able to if he didn't want the child in the first place?)

There is a family friend of mine in US who's 19 year old son got his gf pregnant (she is not the ex gf). She is not the most pleasant person either, so it was really hard for this boy to deal with her, he didn't want the baby. After careful consideration, he decided to support her decision to keep the baby. Then she ended up moving to a different state to live with her parents and have the baby, and although now this boy tries to be involved in the baby's life the mother complains that he ''doesn't do enough'''. She even complains that he chose to go to school instead of get a job and be a full-time dad.

You really have to weigh a few things in your situation: 1) do you want children/do you want THIS child? 2) do you want to give up any rights that you may have, and in doing so would you later regret it? 3) is the mother someone you could remain friends with/at least get along with or remain on good terms with for the sake of the child? 4) is the woman someone you WOULD like to be involved with romantically and could you ever make the relationship work (or was she just someone to get you off while you were in Finland)? 5) if/when she has the baby, if you are there for the birth, your mind may totally change in the feelings about the child.

Sometimes I wonder what women think when they got pregnant. I know when I got pregnant I was absolutely terrified and cried everyday for the first few months. Part of me would have been relieved if my boyfriend would have just said ''lets get an abortion''. But at the same time, the future was very unknown to me (especially since he was a Finnish and not a US citizen and had to leave in a couple months!) Now we are living in Finland with our 10 month old son, and I am loving it!

I hope that you weren't just frakking this lady for the fun of it, and that perhaps you were more serious about the relationship. Maybe the pregnancy has just scared/shocked you a bit. But you have a lot of thinking/planning/discussing to do with this lady. And I hope, for your sake, she is a clear-headed person.

[sandfar]

as a believer in ''pro-choice'', i sometimes feel sorry for men when they know they are in no position to care for/don't want a child, but because it is the woman's choice in the end, they really get no say. but, at the same time, i think being more careful (condoms, pulling out, etc) should be something the man needs to do and be more active about.

birth control is another option, but not every woman can take it due to allergies/hormones/adverse side effects etc. (do not know if this was the case here, but just wanted to make that point). But that being said, birth control is NOT always 100% effective anyway and therefore other things should be done as well.

Since the lady you were seeing already had a child, you should have considered two things: 1) she is obviously fertile 2) it is probably harder for a woman to have an abortion after already having one child.

I do have one question: why were you sleeping with her if you had no intentions of furthering the relationship to a more committed status??

I know that in US, the father can sign over his rights completely, which makes him completely unconnected to the child. If something were to happen to the mother, he could not take over custody. (But why should he be able to if he didn't want the child in the first place?)

There is a family friend of mine in US who's 19 year old son got his gf pregnant (she is not the ex gf). She is not the most pleasant person either, so it was really hard for this boy to deal with her, he didn't want the baby. After careful consideration, he decided to support her decision to keep the baby. Then she ended up moving to a different state to live with her parents and have the baby, and although now this boy tries to be involved in the baby's life the mother complains that he ''doesn't do enough'''. She even complains that he chose to go to school instead of get a job and be a full-time dad.

You really have to weigh a few things in your situation: 1) do you want children/do you want THIS child? 2) do you want to give up any rights that you may have, and in doing so would you later regret it? 3) is the mother someone you could remain friends with/at least get along with or remain on good terms with for the sake of the child? 4) is the woman someone you WOULD like to be involved with romantically and could you ever make the relationship work (or was she just someone to get you off while you were in Finland)? 5) if/when she has the baby, if you are there for the birth, your mind may totally change in the feelings about the child.

Sometimes I wonder what women think when they got pregnant. I know when I got pregnant I was absolutely terrified and cried everyday for the first few months. Part of me would have been relieved if my boyfriend would have just said ''lets get an abortion''. But at the same time, the future was very unknown to me (especially since he was a Finnish and not a US citizen and had to leave in a couple months!) Now we are living in Finland with our 10 month old son, and I am loving it!

I hope that you weren't just frakking this lady for the fun of it, and that perhaps you were more serious about the relationship. Maybe the pregnancy has just scared/shocked you a bit. But you have a lot of thinking/planning/discussing to do with this lady. And I hope, for your sake, she is a clear-headed person.

I did it because I tough that our relation may work out in the future and I was just taking time and see if this relation will work....for me at this point is too soon to see if our relationship it will work (various reasons, including medical ones) plus I really don't appreciate when I do something under the gun . She says that she wants me to take care of the baby even we are not together in the future so kid will have our best intentions ..the future will show if we, parents, will stay together cause this matter have raised doubts about my feeling about her...and yes, I do hope, for my sake but also kid sake that she is clear-headed person

[zujicgse]

Get your balls in Finland until the baby will be born, sign the papers that you agree that you are a legal father and then after that go ahead with your plan whether to split or whatever, but saying NO to unborn baby and wanting to be a father that's !"#¤% to me. With all the respect.