American Opening a Cafe in Helsinki

[Redcloud41]

Hi everyone,

I'm opening a cafe in Helsinki and already signed a lease for a great location. My lease starts Nov 15th. My sister and I are doing this together and we were advised before doing this (from Finnish Consulates abroad and even here) to get the lease first and then submit our immigration paperwork. So following that advice, that's exactly what we did. We submitted our immigration paperwork several weeks back and now they're telling us it could take up to 6 months! Of course we requested that they speed up our paperwork since we have a leasing agreement (and so we don't have to pay for an empty space), but we're obviously running into some problems:

1. Confusion with the PRH Rule: as a rule we're supposed to register our business with them before we can start our business and to get a permit. But we cant register with them unless we have a permit. Can someone please advise on this?? I've called migri, PRH (even spoke to their lawyers), enterprise finland, ELY and NO ONE has been able to help. The bigger problem is that we are US citizens. Does anyone here have experience with this?

2. Should we get an immigration lawyer to walk us through this process?

In summary, we have the financing for our business, we have a solid business plan, we have a pretty huge following already for the busines to open...we just need our residence permit and to register with PRH before anything can happen. We start on renovations next week, setting up appointments with health inspectors etc etc...we just don't want to do this in vain. Please help!

[Rick1]

In English they have 3 words for this : Oh my god. Going to a country and start a business before immigration

RIP will tell you how it goes.

[Redcloud41]

In English they have 3 words for this : Oh my god. Going to a country and start a business before immigration

RIP will tell you how it goes.

I know But I tell you we really did so much research and was advised so many times from the Finnish consulate that it is better to secure a lease first. They said it would help our chances of getting it going quickly. We've traveled 8 times to Helsinki in the last year and half doing this. On the immigration application, it states (attach partnership agreement and leasing agreement etc). Poop.

[Rick1]

Ok sorry to hear but this person RIP seems to know a lot about immigration matters

by Rip » Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:28 pm

In principle you should not stay here over three months without registration, in practice without intra-Schengen border control the wouldn't easily know, and AFAIK even the formal requirement would be fulfilled by boat cruise to Stockholm or Tallinn every three months.

If you have the money, there are international health insurance providers. Yes, finding job without knowing the language is often hard (one could perhaps say something more specific if you had told about your educational and other background)Rip

Posts: 2202
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:08 pm
Private messageE-mail Rip

[onkko]

Ok sorry to hear but this person RIP seems to know a lot about immigration matters

by Rip » Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:28 pm

In principle you should not stay here over three months without registration, in practice without intra-Schengen border control the wouldn't easily know, and AFAIK even the formal requirement would be fulfilled by boat cruise to Stockholm or Tallinn every three months.

If you have the money, there are international health insurance providers. Yes, finding job without knowing the language is often hard (one could perhaps say something more specific if you had told about your educational and other background)Rip

Posts: 2202
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:08 pm
Private messageE-mail Rip

You are mixing EU with non-EU, dont.

[Mölkky-Fan]

Hi everyone,

I'm opening a cafe in Helsinki and already signed a lease for a great location. My lease starts Nov 15th. My sister and I are doing this together and we were advised before doing this (from Finnish Consulates abroad and even here) to get the lease first and then submit our immigration paperwork. So following that advice, that's exactly what we did. We submitted our immigration paperwork several weeks back and now they're telling us it could take up to 6 months! Of course we requested that they speed up our paperwork since we have a leasing agreement (and so we don't have to pay for an empty space), but we're obviously running into some problems:

1. Confusion with the PRH Rule: as a rule we're supposed to register our business with them before we can start our business and to get a permit. But we cant register with them unless we have a permit. Can someone please advise on this?? I've called migri, PRH (even spoke to their lawyers), enterprise finland, ELY and NO ONE has been able to help. The bigger problem is that we are US citizens. Does anyone here have experience with this?

2. Should we get an immigration lawyer to walk us through this process?

In summary, we have the financing for our business, we have a solid business plan, we have a pretty huge following already for the busines to open...we just need our residence permit and to register with PRH before anything can happen. We start on renovations next week, setting up appointments with health inspectors etc etc...we just don't want to do this in vain. Please help!

Can't you get a temporary manager to get the cafe open (with you unofficially in the background)? I really do not know if that is possible, but why not? At least then you would not be wasting the lease payments...

[rinso]

Can't you get a temporary manager to get the cafe open (with you unofficially in the background)? I really do not know if that is possible, but why not? At least then you would not be wasting the lease payments...

6 months might be to pessimistic, but with the Xmas season coming, I wouldn't bet on less than 3 months.
The advice from the consulate was well meant, but it lacked an economic consideration. (without lease you could only show a plan and that would probably result in a rejection) You have to find a way to get the business going using a local "franchise" man. When you get your permits, you can even out the situation.

2. Should we get an immigration lawyer to walk us through this process?

That wouldn't speed up the process. But a business lawyer to get things running might not be a bad idea.

[Työelämä]

In English they have 3 words for this : Oh my god. Going to a country and start a business before immigration

RIP will tell you how it goes.

I know But I tell you we really did so much research and was advised so many times from the Finnish consulate that it is better to secure a lease first. They said it would help our chances of getting it going quickly. We've traveled 8 times to Helsinki in the last year and half doing this. On the immigration application, it states (attach partnership agreement and leasing agreement etc). Poop.

Since you have a lease agreement starting soon, while not travel down to Helsinki yourself on a 3 month visa waver period for Americans and get things rolling yourself while you wait for your residnce permit approvals from the embassy. Hiring a local down here will cost you more and the certainty that things are going according to your business plan may be slim.

[Rick1]

Ok sorry to hear but this person RIP seems to know a lot about immigration matters

by Rip » Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:28 pm

In principle you should not stay here over three months without registration, in practice without intra-Schengen border control the wouldn't easily know, and AFAIK even the formal requirement would be fulfilled by boat cruise to Stockholm or Tallinn every three months.

If you have the money, there are international health insurance providers. Yes, finding job without knowing the language is often hard (one could perhaps say something more specific if you had told about your educational and other background)Rip

Posts: 2202
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:08 pm



Private messageE-mail Rip

You are mixing EU with non-EU, dont.

This was just an example for the op.

[Redcloud41]

Thanks all for your advice! I'm already in Helsinki. When I submitted my immigration paperwork, I also had to submit a "Response to possible Refusal of entry form" which says that I can be here, but if my immigration paperwork is rejected, I have to head back to the states. I have considered getting a Finnish partner (like my boyfriend) to go in with us just so we get started, but it's seems too dishonest. Our real intention is for a general partnership between my sister and I...so having a Finnish partner just for show doesn't sit right with me. We will do all the renovation we can and that should take a couple months anyway and hopefully we'll hear something by then. If anyone else has any advice, please share. Thanks again!

[Rosamunda]

But registering the business is the easy part. Have you taken the Hygiene Pass exam? Do you have a trading permit from the city of Helsinki? You have to submit a full hygiene protocol before you can run a food business and get a licence to trade and of course there will be inspections and revisions to the protocol.

IMO your only way forwards is to find an EU resident (I think you call it a silent partner in the US) to register your business. Don't waste your money on lawyers: you can't register a business unless you are a resident of the EU.

[ahs]

hello there,
I v completed my high school diploma in usa and now have come to finland for my higher education!!
I badly need a part-time job here!! can I have a job ib ur cafe??
please kindly inform me as soon as possible!!
thanks!!

[Mölkky-Fan]

Thanks all for your advice! I'm already in Helsinki. When I submitted my immigration paperwork, I also had to submit a "Response to possible Refusal of entry form" which says that I can be here, but if my immigration paperwork is rejected, I have to head back to the states. I have considered getting a Finnish partner (like my boyfriend) to go in with us just so we get started, but it's seems too dishonest. Our real intention is for a general partnership between my sister and I...so having a Finnish partner just for show doesn't sit right with me. We will do all the renovation we can and that should take a couple months anyway and hopefully we'll hear something by then. If anyone else has any advice, please share. Thanks again!

but this is business! If you want to succeed you have to weigh up 'appears a little dishonest' vs 'no money income and lots of outlay' ... and arrive at the business answer. I think what I suggest is legal, would give someone a job, and would keep your company's head above water... remember the percentage of small businesses that fail in the first year is huge (I have been there and done that) and to be one of the companies that succeeds you need to have a business attitude. I would consider it at least. And hurry up with the renovation, it will surely get delayed and every day you are closed is lost income.

[Rip]

First, regarding myself, regarding topics of this board I am just an amateur. Relatively well informed of some subjects, but setting your own business isn't really one of them.

If I were your boyfriend I would have voiced scepticism regarding the advice given by the consulate (or at least warned of possible problems ahead), but that is too late now. Penelope seems to know the rules best of those that contributed so far, although you seem to have had crash course on them your self.

You can't legally work here without a permit, but it seems setting the business itself is not impossible (although more difficult) if you don't yet have a residence permit, assuming you have some suitable resident available to assist with the formal requirements (as far as I can see the the residents position could be of an authorised representative or similar, not owner/partner):
http://www.yrityssuomi.fi/web/enterpris ... -residents
(and for example)
http://www.yrityssuomi.fi/web/enterpris ... artnership


You said you talked with PRH already, but did you talk with them about possibilities of setting the business with the help of your boyfriend or some local resident (so you could find the option that would be the least troublesome to you)?

[Redcloud41]

Thanks all for your advice! I'm already in Helsinki. When I submitted my immigration paperwork, I also had to submit a "Response to possible Refusal of entry form" which says that I can be here, but if my immigration paperwork is rejected, I have to head back to the states. I have considered getting a Finnish partner (like my boyfriend) to go in with us just so we get started, but it's seems too dishonest. Our real intention is for a general partnership between my sister and I...so having a Finnish partner just for show doesn't sit right with me. We will do all the renovation we can and that should take a couple months anyway and hopefully we'll hear something by then. If anyone else has any advice, please share. Thanks again!

but this is business! If you want to succeed you have to weigh up 'appears a little dishonest' vs 'no money income and lots of outlay' ... and arrive at the business answer. I think what I suggest is legal, would give someone a job, and would keep your company's head above water... remember the percentage of small businesses that fail in the first year is huge (I have been there and done that) and to be one of the companies that succeeds you need to have a business attitude. I would consider it at least. And hurry up with the renovation, it will surely get delayed and every day you are closed is lost income.

Thanks so much for your response. You're right. I thought about what you said about getting a Finnish partner and it's not dishonest. It's a means to keep the business going. My boyfriend is going to come in as a partner so we can get the ball rolling. I've done business in the states for about 12 years, but being in another country that has many rules--I just wanted to make sure I was following them. And as a rule, if I do have a Finnish partner, then business can commence. And yes, we must hurry with renovations!! Thanks again for giving me this idea. We will go to register the business on Monday!