I need help on moving to Finland

Spencer2704 · Post by **Spencer2704** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:58 am

Hello

I'm currently planning to move to Finland and I would really like the steps on doing this, I know basic stuff like shipping but I need help on what forms I need and what to do. I plan on moving a little before I turn 18. What type of forms do I need and I intend to stay with a Finnish citizen. I'm from the US and would like to know what forms do I need and this is a permanent move. I'll be happy to answer any questions that you would need to know to help me. I'm currently studying Finnish so I'm able to get a job when I move. Also would I have to move there first and then file for a residence permit or file for a residence permit then move?

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onkko · Post by **onkko** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:22 am

First of all you need a valid reason, its study, work or family. Only wanting and just popping up here ends up deportation.
Family we can rule out since youre minor and under 18 cant marry and i doubt that you have had over 2 years close relationship with your finnish friend, work is far from possibility since you would be competing agains big youth unemployment and educated people who do speak finnish and rules that someone outside EU can be hired only if there isnt any in EU who could do that job so what is left is study.
There is plenty of info about studying in finland in net and this forum.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:37 am

Spencer2704 wrote: I know basic stuff like shipping but I need help on what forms I need and what to do.

The basic stuff is getting a residence permit, before you start to worry about shipping. In your case perhaps based on studies?
http://www.migri.fi/netcomm/content.asp ... anguage=EN

I plan on moving a little before I turn 18.

I think you'll find it difficulty enough even after you've turned 18, and are legally competent to decide about your own matters. Before 18 I think it is simply impossible.

What type of forms do I need and I intend to stay with a Finnish citizen.

If we are not talking about your legal spouse then that is not a good enough reason to get a permit even after you're 18.

I'm from the US and would like to know what forms do I need and this is a permanent move.

Study the stuff on Migri page first. Link supplied above.

I'm currently studying Finnish so I'm able to get a job when I move.

Most native 18 year olds would find it hard to get a full time job, even in better economic situation than the current one. Lot to do with the generally still typically non-existing professional education. Your situation is unlikely to be different, except unless you're extraordinary talented with languages, your Finnish will be either poor or very poor when you move.

Also would I have to move there first and then file for a residence permit or file for a residence permit then move?

Family members can apply here (not necessarily speediest way even for them). Family member = wife or husband of a citizen or somebody who has been co-habiting with a one for two years. The rest should apply abroad.

Spencer2704 · Post by **Spencer2704** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:25 am

onkko wrote:First of all you need a valid reason, its study, work or family. Only wanting and just popping up here ends up deportation.
Family we can rule out since youre minor and under 18 cant marry and i doubt that you have had over 2 years close relationship with your finnish friend

This is true and I know I'm not able to marry under 18 but I'll be moving a month or so before I turn 18 so I'm able to settle a bit. Actually it will be two years and three months when I move there and I do plan on having a family with her. I forgot to leave out a few details about this. Well for work by the time I actually move I'll have a two year degree in engineering so I think that may help with the job part.

Spencer2704 · Post by **Spencer2704** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:36 am

I think you'll find it difficulty enough even after you've turned 18, and are legally competent to decide about your own matters. Before 18 I think it is simply impossible.

Well I meant to actually travel there then apply for everything or is that still a stupid idea?

If we are not talking about your legal spouse then that is not a good enough reason to get a permit even after you're 18.

I thought it was a good reason? Americans shouldn't have too much of a problem when it comes to false marriages because not many Americans are trying to immigrate to Finland by falsifying marriage.

Most native 18 year olds would find it hard to get a full time job, even in better economic situation than the current one. Lot to do with the generally still typically non-existing professional education. Your situation is unlikely to be different, except unless you're extraordinary talented with languages, your Finnish will be either poor or very poor when you move.

That is true but like I had said in my other reply I will have a degree so it would make it a bit easier on me. Well I practice with native Finns all the time and I'm quite good already I've been studying for almost a year now. I make progress everyday. I hope to be really good when I'm there.

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:45 am

Spencer2704 wrote:
I think you'll find it difficulty enough even after you've turned 18, and are legally competent to decide about your own matters. Before 18 I think it is simply impossible.
Well I meant to actually travel there then apply for everything or is that still a stupid idea?

It is usually not recommended. Closer to Finland you are, the longer it will take to process the application. Also during processing you'll be in legal limbo.

Spencer2704 wrote:
If we are not talking about your legal spouse then that is not a good enough reason to get a permit even after you're 18.
I thought it was a good reason? Americans shouldn't have too much of a problem when it comes to false marriages because not many Americans are trying to immigrate to Finland by falsifying marriage.

Co-habitation of 2 years equals marriage. But you didn't specify any relationship with the person who you intend to stay with ("What type of forms do I need and I intend to stay with a Finnish citizen. ") That is not enough reason for RP whether you are minor or not.

Spencer2704 wrote:
Most native 18 year olds would find it hard to get a full time job, even in better economic situation than the current one. Lot to do with the generally still typically non-existing professional education. Your situation is unlikely to be different, except unless you're extraordinary talented with languages, your Finnish will be either poor or very poor when you move.

That is true but like I had said in my other reply I will have a degree so it would make it a bit easier on me. Well I practice with native Finns all the time and I'm quite good already I've been studying for almost a year now. I make progress everyday. I hope to be really good when I'm there.

Depends of the degree... foreign degrees tend to be of unknown quality and content, so their value for the employer is limited.

Visit the kielikoulu section of this board for language related advices.

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:33 am

I'll have a two year degree in engineering so I think that may help with the job part.

I'm afraid you're to optimistic. A two year degree doesn't mean anything in Finland.

Americans shouldn't have too much of a problem when it comes to false marriages because not many Americans are trying to immigrate to Finland by falsifying marriage.

That might be so, but Finnish officials can be very stubborn when it comes to interpretation of rules.

Kutittaa · Post by **Kutittaa** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:28 am

People don't seem to realise that a bachelors doesn't' mean anything inside of Europe. Whilst the rest of the world might have stupidly low education requirements to warrant employment Europe doesn't. Anything less than a masters and you aren't qualified. In many cases there are people who are very overqualified who are working in Finland for half what they could be making somewhere else. Some see a masters as a starting point rather than a finishing point. Whereas a masters in say, 'Art' in Australia would qualify you to teach it at a University level. In Finland you could teach at a school level only.. or thereabouts anyway.

Point is, I was just like you. I came into the forums with the same questions at the same age. But the one thing that really separates you and I is that I had already been here first in 2009. I had already stayed for 3 months and I had that up on a lot of people who have never been here and yet think they can guess how the country runs without having ever been to it.

Lets get some FACTS straight:

Without being married to a Finn you have absolutely no way of staying legally over your 3 month visa. That's if you even get a visa. Though they hand those out pretty easily. That is a fact, there are no 'buts' there are no 'ifs' there is no nothing. You either have FAMILY TIES to Finland or BLOOD TIES to Finland or you don't get to stay longer than that. Plain and simple. I can't spell it out easier than that.

So you either COHABITATE for 2 years. This means, you live together, you sleep together, you fight together and you pay the bills together and keep records of your same location cohabitation. Finland will want proof of you staying together. 2 years is a long time, I do is a thousand times easier.. though it's still quite difficult too mind you.

Travelling to Finland is the 'new' way that it can be done, the best way and perhaps the fastest is that you apply in your own country and then wait for a response. You're not even 18 yet... so you should apply in your own country at the local consulate and then send the forms in and wait for a response. Coming to Finland and doing it puts you in a position without any insurance, health care or any sort of help or benefit or anything whilst you wait. If you break your leg, get into trouble or need help from Finnish services you'd be expected to pay thousands just because you aren't covered. On top of that your rights are few, if any. If you are denied your permit you will be asked to leave ASAP. Which means literally on the next plane out of the country. No time for goodbyes, no time for "But I had a boat ticket to Åland" you pack your stuff and you go. Being denied also makes it harder to come back. Think of how bad it could be coming here, getting denied and then having a pretty short time to suddenly make plans and say goodbye to your loved one. Not the best idea...

As an 18 year old you have no chance of finding a job. I've been here a year and I know a lot of people who are super qualified. They literally walk into every place in the middle of town and they've been unemployed for ages. Though some of them are actually starting to get employed now for Winter which is really great for them. As a teenager with absolutely minimal experience, if any and a degree that doesn't count for anything in this country (that is how they will see you) you won't probably even be looked sideways at... not to say that it isn't impossible but it's pretty darn close to impossible.

How do you know your Finnish is good if you haven't been to Finland? Practising with native Finns or not makes absolutely no difference. How do you know you're anything without having been here? Frankly people take it pretty badly on the forums here (me especially) if someone pops in with the idea that they know what they are talking about before having actually ever been here... I mean seriously... YOU ARE A TEENAGER who has NEVER come to Finland EVER. You should be taking the point of "I don't know !"#¤%, please teach me!" not because you have to suck up to everyone, but because THOSE ARE THE FACTS.

There is one thing that can and will set you apart from others. Reality vs. fantasy. If you stick to being a realist then you have a shot. If you, for even one second, think that luck has anything to do with anything and that you assume that 'things will work themselves out without huge amounts of effort' then you will be making the biggest most expensive mistake of your entire life by coming here.

The best thing you can do is try and read as much as you can on the forums. There are thousands of other people who have asked the exact same questions with better experience than you, having actually been here, as well as being older and more qualified. They have gotten the same answers.

Think of moving here in steps:

1. WHY do you want to move to Finland? Why why why why whyy? Why not Sweden, why not Norway, WHY FINLAND?
2. What is your LEGAL reason for being able to move here? Consider what I said above.
3. How do you intend to support yourself financially here? This place is one of the most expensive in the world.
4. What are your long term goals here?
5. Why can't you just stay in your own home country like a good boy like everyone else?

Answer those, then get back to us in a few years lol.

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:57 am

Kutittaa wrote:Lets get some FACTS straight:

Without being married to a Finn you have absolutely no way of staying legally over your 3 month visa. That's if you even get a visa.

No need for visa for US citizens: http://formin.finland.fi/public/default ... ture=en-US

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:16 pm

Spencer2704 wrote:
I think you'll find it difficulty enough even after you've turned 18, and are legally competent to decide about your own matters. Before 18 I think it is simply impossible.
Well I meant to actually travel there then apply for everything or is that still a stupid idea?

I meant that while you are under-age it may well be impossible to apply as non-refugee a residence permit without your parents here. After that, unless a family member of a citizen you should still apply abroad, and even if you were a family member it might be more practical to apply abroad.

If we are not talking about your legal spouse then that is not a good enough reason to get a permit even after you're 18.
I thought it was a good reason? Americans shouldn't have too much of a problem when it comes to false marriages because not many Americans are trying to immigrate to Finland by falsifying marriage.

One of us is not understanding the other.

Having Finnish wife or husband = usually a good enough reason (some consideration if the marriage is real)
Having a Finnish girl or boyfriend = usually not a good enough reason (formally qualifies only if shared child or cohabitation (living under the roof, not just dating) for two years)

Most native 18 year olds would find it hard to get a full time job, even in better economic situation than the current one. Lot to do with the generally still typically non-existing professional education. Your situation is unlikely to be different, except unless you're extraordinary talented with languages, your Finnish will be either poor or very poor when you move.

That is true but like I had said in my other reply I will have a degree so it would make it a bit easier on me. Well I practice with native Finns all the time and I'm quite good already I've been studying for almost a year now. I make progress everyday. I hope to be really good when I'm there.

What kind of degree? Based on what you told about your age I assume low educational level. You would really be an exception if you can achieve a fluency in Finnish while living abroad. There are plenty of people on this board that have found it difficult while living here. Also, unfortunately economy will likely be tough for some years. Maybe you have what it takes to succeed here, I am just afraid you think it will be much easier than it really is.

Kutittaa · Post by **Kutittaa** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:58 pm

Upphew wrote:
Kutittaa wrote:Lets get some FACTS straight:

Without being married to a Finn you have absolutely no way of staying legally over your 3 month visa. That's if you even get a visa.
No need for visa for US citizens: http://formin.finland.fi/public/default ... ture=en-US

Visa or not. You can't stay more than 3 months. My bad though.

Spencer2704 · Post by **Spencer2704** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:53 pm

Without being married to a Finn you have absolutely no way of staying legally over your 3 month visa. That's if you even get a visa. Though they hand those out pretty easily. That is a fact, there are no 'buts' there are no 'ifs' there is no nothing. You either have FAMILY TIES to Finland or BLOOD TIES to Finland or you don't get to stay longer than that. Plain and simple. I can't spell it out easier than that.

I will marry her honestly that's been my plan for a long time now. I can also get a visa from studies if I get accepted to the college first. I already know this though and it's not the easiest thing to do.

So you either COHABITATE for 2 years. This means, you live together, you sleep together, you fight together and you pay the bills together and keep records of your same location cohabitation. Finland will want proof of you staying together. 2 years is a long time, I do is a thousand times easier.. though it's still quite difficult too mind you.

I know what this means but I was reading on the forums as long as you have legitimate relationship you should not have to worry as much and you still have to have proof of this relationship. I've read a lot about it but I still need lots of help.

Travelling to Finland is the 'new' way that it can be done, the best way and perhaps the fastest is that you apply in your own country and then wait for a response. You're not even 18 yet... so you should apply in your own country at the local consulate and then send the forms in and wait for a response. Coming to Finland and doing it puts you in a position without any insurance, health care or any sort of help or benefit or anything whilst you wait.

Well what forms should I apply while I'm still within my country? What should I apply for? Well how would I get insurance and what would you advise me to do?

How do you know your Finnish is good if you haven't been to Finland? Practising with native Finns or not makes absolutely no difference. How do you know you're anything without having been here? Frankly people take it pretty badly on the forums here (me especially) if someone pops in with the idea that they know what they are talking about before having actually ever been here... I mean seriously... YOU ARE A TEENAGER who has NEVER come to Finland EVER.

Actually I've been to Finland, in Oulu, Kempele, and Helsinki with my girlfriends family who is Finnish. I also would like to say my dads side is Finnish. I love Finland so that's why I would like to come there I honestly think it's a great country also the main reason being is so I can live out a family with my girlfriend. I've been around many Finns and that's how I would know my Finnish is good and they were very surprised. I don't like you saying I've not been there before I mean I'm going to be back in December - January. I do need help that's why I came to the forums for help and advice.

1. WHY do you want to move to Finland? Why why why why whyy? Why not Sweden, why not Norway, WHY FINLAND?
2. What is your LEGAL reason for being able to move here? Consider what I said above.
3. How do you intend to support yourself financially here? This place is one of the most expensive in the world.
4. What are your long term goals here?
5. Why can't you just stay in your own home country like a good boy like everyone else?

1. I've already explain in my reply to you.
2. Either studies or family ties.
3. Savings plus my girlfriend has a job to help support us, it's quite a lot of savings between her and I.
4. Well I plan on getting a high degree and pursuing a career in engineering either environmental or mechanical.
5. because of my girlfriend and I rather dislike Americans and America.

I would like to say you should be a bit nicer when it comes to trying to help people. I have an Australian friend moving to Finland so he is like you in a sense. I mean you shouldn't assume I'm misinformed and don't know anything about this. I know a lot but I want to learn more. I would like your help but I'm some stupid teen not knowing a thing about Finland.

Kutittaa · Post by **Kutittaa** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:36 pm

Spencer2704 wrote:I will marry her honestly that's been my plan for a long time now. I can also get a visa from studies if I get accepted to the college first. I already know this though and it's not the easiest thing to do.

What makes you think that you will get into Uni here? Lots of smarter people here remember?

Spencer2704 wrote:
So you either COHABITATE for 2 years. This means, you live together, you sleep together, you fight together and you pay the bills together and keep records of your same location cohabitation. Finland will want proof of you staying together. 2 years is a long time, I do is a thousand times easier.. though it's still quite difficult too mind you.
I know what this means but I was reading on the forums as long as you have legitimate relationship you should not have to worry as much and you still have to have proof of this relationship. I've read a lot about it but I still need lots of help.

Are you hard of hearing or something? 2 years with paper proof of same residence, paying bills together, bank statements etc. Or marriage certificate. Not just 'whatever-you-think-is-serious-relationship-proof'.

Sounds to me like you are in way over your head.

Travelling to Finland is the 'new' way that it can be done, the best way and perhaps the fastest is that you apply in your own country and then wait for a response. You're not even 18 yet... so you should apply in your own country at the local consulate and then send the forms in and wait for a response. Coming to Finland and doing it puts you in a position without any insurance, health care or any sort of help or benefit or anything whilst you wait.

Spencer2704 wrote:Well what forms should I apply while I'm still within my country? What should I apply for? Well how would I get insurance and what would you advise me to do?

I don't think you should apply for any because I doubt you have proof of cohabitation for 2 years and all the things that have been stated by others.

How do you know your Finnish is good if you haven't been to Finland? Practising with native Finns or not makes absolutely no difference. How do you know you're anything without having been here? Frankly people take it pretty badly on the forums here (me especially) if someone pops in with the idea that they know what they are talking about before having actually ever been here... I mean seriously... YOU ARE A TEENAGER who has NEVER come to Finland EVER.

Spencer2704 wrote:Actually I've been to Finland, in Oulu, Kempele, and Helsinki with my girlfriends family who is Finnish. I also would like to say my dads side is Finnish. I love Finland so that's why I would like to come there I honestly think it's a great country also the main reason being is so I can live out a family with my girlfriend. I've been around many Finns and that's how I would know my Finnish is good and they were very surprised. I don't like you saying I've not been there before I mean I'm going to be back in December - January. I do need help that's why I came to the forums for help and advice.

If your dad is Finnish and has citizenship you should be able to claim. Though I doubt that is the case by the sounds of it. If your dads side is Finnish and you know all of this Finnish and you're so good, why do you need so much help? Why do you not know the first thing about moving here if you have been here?

Finns are surprised if another person can even say 'Terve'...

Like others have said. Best help for anyone is reality. I am not here to bake you a cake and stick a little cherry on it for you. Do you want what REALLY helps, (i.e. the truth, the facts) or do you want "Oh just walk right in mate, welcome to Finland buddy!" People are helping you for free, the least YOU can do is offer us your thanks..

If you aren't a stupid teen why don't you know a thing about moving here? Not saying that you are 'stupid' but seriously. You say one thing, then you ask another? What am I supposed to believe? In the long run you'll thank me because you get the information you need.

People these days... you guys really don't have it worked out..

Spencer2704 · Post by **Spencer2704** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:57 pm

Kutittaa wrote: If your dad is Finnish and has citizenship you should be able to claim. Though I doubt that is the case by the sounds of it. If your dads side is Finnish and you know all of this Finnish and you're so good, why do you need so much help? Why do you not know the first thing about moving here if you have been here?

Finns are surprised if another person can even say 'Terve'...

Like others have said. Best help for anyone is reality. I am not here to bake you a cake and stick a little cherry on it for you. Do you want what REALLY helps, (i.e. the truth, the facts) or do you want "Oh just walk right in mate, welcome to Finland buddy!" People are helping you for free, the least YOU can do is offer us your thanks..

If you aren't a stupid teen why don't you know a thing about moving here? Not saying that you are 'stupid' but seriously. You say one thing, then you ask another? What am I supposed to believe? In the long run you'll thank me because you get the information you need.

People these days... you guys really don't have it worked out..

I'm asking for your help but you just keep trying to shoot me down, I know the reality of things and I'm asking for help. So will you please help me? I know they're smarter people there always will be but still loads of foreigners come to Finnish colleges. My testing scores I'm able to go to Harvard Uni so please I'll get into a Finnish school if I try hard enough. Please help me and tell me what to do step by step that's all I'm asking. I said my Finnish is good but I still need help no matter what, I don't know everything I only know some so could you please help? I want to learn as much as I can from you.

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:17 pm

If you try asking some specific question then you might get some proper answers. But "I need help, tell me what to do" is not very specific. Have you contacted the consulate in the USA? Have you read Migri's pages? Have you asked your girlfriend to get some information for you? If you are serious about this you need to be a bit more proactive and not really on other people to do all the research for you. There aren't really any short-cuts or loopholes. And being American simply means you are "non-EU" - it doesn't mean you have any special status as some kind of "desirable" foreigner.

If your grades are good, then your best solution is to apply for a university course. Admissions open about now for September 2012.

OTOH, you could just be some WUM Finnish teenager who is bored on a Friday night and has nothing better to do.

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