ESL job hunting advice; cultural factors to consider?

lifecry · Post by **lifecry** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:59 am

Hello all!

First off, a big "thank you" to anyone who may take the time and energy to read this.

Second off, a disclaimer; if this is posted in the wrong area, or if these questions have already been asked/answered in another post, please let me know. For the record, I have searched through the forum a bit and am not just posting randomly

Allright, so I'd like to find a job teaching English in Finland. Before I get to my questions, here's my basic situation:

-17 years of experience in the ESL field, in a wide variety of institutions. Plenty of glowing references from former employers.
-I am an EU citizen, as well as my daughter. My wife is in the process of applying for her EU citizenship based on her marriage to me.
-Currently based in the US, but looking to move to Finland next spring, depending on how the job hunt works out.
-Beginner-level Finnish language skills. ( not a mighty asset, I know

)
-Would consider flying to Finland for the right interview ( at my own expense if need be ).

So, moving on, here's the relevant info that I have gathered already.

-finding a job in Finland is very hard if you are not there in the flesh.
-Agressive self-promotion goes over very poorly with Finns.
-Being overqualified for the position can torpedo what slim chances you may have.

OK. At long last, question time:

1) Would you agree with the above three statements? How have your experiences been in these respects?

2) My working plan right now is to just start emailing my resume to a whole slew of English schools. What I'm wondering is...
* is this kind of thing frowned upon and seen as presumptuous?
* is there any risk ( reputation-wise ) in doing so, or is being ignored the worst-case scenario?
* assuming the statements concerning self-promotion and over-qualification are true, how could I compensate? Trim down my resume? Downplay my strengths? It seems counter intuitive to me, but some things really depend on the culture, which is why I ask

Allright; there's loads more I'd like to ask, but I'll leave it at this for now. Thanks in advance for sharing your two cents!

-Nate

**Sponsor:**

Fitz · Post by **Fitz** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:23 pm

lifecry wrote:-finding a job in Finland is very hard if you are not there in the flesh.

I can't answer the rest of your questions, but I don't think this is necessarily true. If you're looking for a specific job at specific companies, you can do all your applying online (through the website or email), and the only thing being here would help is having a phone number for them to call. Even then, more companies are using Skype to interview those who are abroad, so being here for that reason is becoming less important.

Plus, if you don't have a job when you come here, you'll get screwed by living costs while you're looking for a job for the next year. Secure a job first, then make the move. That way you can be working in America, increasing your savings (though it sounds like you already have a lot since you say you can make the trip just for an interview), and looking for jobs.

But if you're just looking for any job like cleaning or at a restaurant just to survive, I would agree that being here would be better.

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:31 pm

What exactly is it in your CV that makes you think you are over-qualified to teach ESL?

There are plenty of posts on FF about teaching ESL in Finland, I'm sure you've found a few already. There are no "jobs" as such on offer. Language schools offer work by the hour. And they pay by the hour. So some months you might get some work and some months you won't. It's OK if your SO is the breadwinner - but pretty tough if you need to bring home the bacon.

All right?

lifecry · Post by **lifecry** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:35 pm

@ Fritz: I've heard the opinion expressed elsewhere that e-mail is "useless" for applying for jobs in Finland. Clearly your experience has been different! Could you elaborate a bit?

Thanks!

@ Penelope: I actually hadn't yet seen a post detailing the system you explained; I'll dive back in and look some more. Thanks for the help!

lifecry · Post by **lifecry** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:08 pm

Ah, yes. It seems I kind of inadvertently dodged the question regarding being "overqualified".

It's all relative, I suppose. What I meant is that ( ideally, anyway! ) the longer one teaches the more qualified one should become. Whether it's being able to coach students in a variety of test formats, designing one's one curriculum from scratch or just having the confidence to deal with extremely demanding and uncooperative bigwig clients, there are some things that tend to come with time.

Fitz · Post by **Fitz** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:32 pm

lifecry wrote:@ Fritz: I've heard the opinion expressed elsewhere that e-mail is "useless" for applying for jobs in Finland. Clearly your experience has been different! Could you elaborate a bit? Thanks!

If it were useless, companies wouldn't use online applications to recruit in the first place. What's more "useless" is not the act of emailing, but usually the person who is emailing, to a Finn anyway. You've heard the opinion that email is useless probably from people who can't speak Finnish or have no experience or education, because a Finn will be chosen for their English and Finnish abilities, their master's degree, and whatever experience they may have.

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:29 pm

Fitz wrote:If it were useless, companies wouldn't use online applications to recruit in the first place.

Some of the companies that use online application systems specifically state that they only accept the applications made through their website, e-mails will be ignored. Of course if the mail is exceptional...

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:56 pm

When you say you are applying to "English schools", what do you mean? Comprehensive schools (ie teaching children)? Or are you looking for EFL work?

-Teaching English to school children in an English-language school would probably require IB experience and an MA in education if you want to teach in a primary school, an MA in English if you want to teach in upper secondary. Most of the jobs come up just before the summer for starting in August.

-Teaching English as a second language to school children (ie in a Finnish or Swedish school) would almost always require Finnish, especially in the comprehensive schools. In upper secondary it is not always a prerequisite but then you need higher academic qualifications. It is quite difficult to get a teaching post in a lukio since there are barriers to entry (they don't like non-Finnish diplomas) which keep many foreign-qualified teachers out.

-Teaching English to adults requires a degree, TEFL qualifications and probably some business background (since most of the work is business English in companies)... OK so there are plenty of people out there teaching TEFL with little experience or qualifications but they are paid accordingly and, as I said before, there is absolutely no guarantee how many hours you would get.

If you can teach something else in English (eg chemistry, music, engineering), then your chances of finding a job are probably better..

lifecry · Post by **lifecry** » Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:35 am

Thanks for the additional information, all.

I have to admit, this has made me think in a more somber away about my chances. I had heard that having a degree was very important in Finland, but I hadn't really realized the extent to which it comes into play, apparently. And I thought the Japanese were picky about educational qualifications.

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:20 pm

lifecry wrote: I have to admit, this has made me think in a more somber away about my chances. I had heard that having a degree was very important in Finland, but I hadn't really realized the extent to which it comes into play, apparently. And I thought the Japanese were picky about educational qualifications.

It might have something to do with those PISA scores everyone seems to rave about...
For more info about the degrees and stuff needed to become teacher here: http://www.opetushallitus.fi/english/education/teachers and http://www.opetushallitus.fi/english/mo ... ifications

lifecry · Post by **lifecry** » Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:38 pm

Thanks, Uphew. Not very encouraging, but it's definitely good to have the whole picture.

Cheers,

-Nate

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:52 pm

lifecry wrote:Thanks, Uphew. Not very encouraging, but it's definitely good to have the whole picture.

That is the public side... then there is the B2B shooling, but as penelope said:

penelope wrote:-Teaching English to adults requires a degree, TEFL qualifications and probably some business background (since most of the work is business English in companies)... OK so there are plenty of people out there teaching TEFL with little experience or qualifications but they are paid accordingly and, as I said before, there is absolutely no guarantee how many hours you would get.

lifecry · Post by **lifecry** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:10 am

Yes, no shortage of obstacles, methinks. Thanks for all the input though, guys!

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