Chef for opportunity/investor in Helsinki Restaurant

[interleukin]

Yes I do know what wages there are like, thanks.

It's not the wages, it's the employment costs that more than double the actual cost of a person.

[rinso]

Yes, basic ingredients cost money - but very little compared to what restaurants in Finland are charging for finished dishes. I've seen dishes there selling for 20 euros that cost no more than 5 euros to produce including labor - and the place is busy. Sell a better version for 14 euros (30% less) and you are still operating with nearly a 300% markup.

Is there anyone on this thread who is actually a seasoned professional in the restaurant industry?

I admire your optimism. And I really hope you'll succeed.
If your financial assumptions are solid (300% profit on a €14,- high quality dish) you'll have no problems in finding investors or getting a loan.
But I think you're a bit to optimistic. There is certainly room for improvement on price and quality, but not on the scale you suggest.
(And yes, I have experience in the restaurant business.)

[Greg_Easter]

Thank you.

[sachion]

Thank you, and yes I am well aware of the low quality of food in Finland as of now. I want to create a restaurant with world class cuisine that is still accessible to Finns, and not just weird like so many other Michelin star restaurants are these days.

It's better for you to know about Finnish taste, they usually focus on simple n feel good products. Heard about Michelin star restaurants, but haven't got a chance to know whether it's weird or not

[Pursuivant]

Only thing I find "weird" about Michelin -star restaurants is the price.

As for dining out in Helsinki I used to but gave it up a long time ago. If I went to a "restaurant" I'd be annoyed, angry and unless I ate half the menu - which I cant afford a months grocery bill - I'd walk out hungry. It was these fancier places with stuff on the menu that was indeed on a bit on the weird side. All the chefs competed to come up with something that had a fancy name and was a can of catfood dumped on a plate with a twig on top. Tonnikalatimbaali anyone?

As for then paying a months grocery bill the portions were so small I just had to grab a quick kebab before the date so as not to strangle the idiot we had first to wait for an hour then asking me stupid questions with a plastic smile after I finally get some food to concentrate on.

So really I gave up going to "restaurants" a long time ago unless someone else pays the bill, as I just fail to see the point.

Nevertheless its nice to see Helsinki getting some new aspirants. When I come for a visit I'll try to come see the menu and laugh, the problem is then to find some real food, as all the old places you could get the mash and meatballs seem to die off...

[hullupoika]

Hi Greg,

Obviously a restaurant could be profitable with a 36 percent food cost. Most Finnish restaurants actually operate at 30% unlike the 25% you propose. Of course SOME DISHES on the menu are lower and some higher. Finnish Labor is extremely expensive, and in my opinion quite inefficient for the prices you pay (i.e. Misa and prep will take 2x as long).

The labor costs will be more difficult to manage. In the helsinki region you will be hard pressed to find any experienced cooks willing to work for the statutory minimums. You might be able to find more experience and a better work ethic at less cost from SOME of the foreign applicants, but don't count on it. Remember payroll taxes are about 50% of your employees wages. Sundays and Holidays are double paydays, overtime is paid at 150%. If you need to fire somebody after their probationary period , you will need to keep paying their salary for two months. Normal firing offenses like showing up to work drunk etc., rate one of the three written warnings you will need to fire someone for cause, thus saving the two month penalty.

The statuatory minimums also mean that you can't save a ton of money by hiring unskilled labor to do the real mind numbing jobs like peeling, washing etc. Your dishwasher-chefs hand will run you 9euro an hr plus the payroll taxes.

Wholesale food is nowhere near as cheep as you would think. Do yourself a favor and contact some of the local purveyors like Vihanessporsi (veg and dry), Heino (veg and dry), Ruslund (meat) Chef Wotkins (meat), Erickson (Fish) Arvo Kokkonen (Fish).

For example reindeer sirloin wholesales at about 34 euros a kilo, Finnish Marble filet is close to 28. Siika (Whitefish), Kuha ( Pike perch), and Turska (cod) comes in between 15 and 18, (Sides, SLIGHTLY cheaper for whole fish, but not after labor costs are included)Arctic char is similar. Off cuts aren´t as cheep as they should be either, I think pork belly runs about 6 euroes a kilo nowadays, a couple euros more for neck. Unless you import meat from France, germany or Italy say goodbye to Hanger (0nglet), Skirt (Bavette), brisket and properly cut short ribs. Offal is only available frozen (by law),though I hear there are people who bring in foie gras fresh from france in cryo (28e).

It might be possible to buy meat in primal cuts, though I have no idea where you could buy it. Decent Bones for stock making (knee, shin) are difficult to procure and expensive. Frozen lobster heads cost about 9 euros a kilo.

It can also be difficult to procure seeming common ingredients (i.e. good luck finding swiss chard, black cabbage, brocolli rabe, jicama etc.) Real specialty ingredients (Mojama, guanciale, saba, etc.)are more than a chore to get.

The overall quality of the ingredients is also not great. Most products come from industrial farming. There is no local organic or free range chicken. The pork is all duroc, bred to the low fat standard. Local tomatoes come in one variety, and aren´t even that good in season. You can get fresh corn briefly, but it tastes more like field corn than sweet corn. Foraged ingredients like mushrooms and berries can be really quite good, but the seasons are really brief. Before people start chiming in on great local ingredients like beets, swedes, turnips, carrots, potatoes etc, understand that again these are also mostly from industrial farms and the quality and variety is not great.

Please do thorough research before you think about opening a place here. Finnish people in general don´t have a large dining out culture. Plan your menus with the understanding that 70% of your customers will be women, because they dine out much more frequently than men.

Location is far more important in Helsinki than you would think. There are very few people willing to travel outside of a neighborhood for food alone.

While I think it would be possible to run a profitable restaurant with good food at fair prices in Helsinki, I think it will be much more difficult than you imagine. I would highly recommend working here locally and getting a good look at the industry firsthand before investing your time and money in a market you know nothing about. Of course you might need to take a pay cut. Head chefs here only make about 3.5K euros a month before taxes, while imported chefs in Moscow and St. Petersburg make upwards of 60K euros a year. Walking into a head chefs job without Finnish language skills might be next to impossible no matter what your resume states. Most of the larger venues are owned by 3 or four corporations (Royal, Palace Kamp, S group,....) and I know of no head chef in any of their venues who isn't a native. You might luck out in a privately held place but your resume and accomplishments will need to be at least twice as impressive as your local competition to get the chance.

I haven't even gone into the price of getting a working restaurant space, or rent, utilities, and accounting.

Its not impossible, but again its not as easy as you would think.

If I were a would be investor, I wouldn´t be terribly impressed by your post. For one, you can´t seem to figure out if you have 20 or 30 years experience. Second blindly fishing for investors in a little used english language forum means you have absolutely no local connections, desperate at best...Nigerian mail scam at worst. Third, 20 or 30 years experience in the industry has no meaning without direct knowledge of the quality of your experience. 20 or 30 years experience also means you are quite old in cooking terms, unless you are including washing dishes and peeling potatoes in your parent´s restaurant at 12 years old. Be aware that most Head Chefs in finland don't have the luxury of just standing at the pass, quality checking, devising menus, doing paperwork and training staff, they actually have to cook.

Just a few things to think about.

[hullupoika]

Actually I just looked at a new pricelist for fish. Kuha and Siika are wholesaling for about 22 Euroes a Kilo. Nieria 15, Turska about 20. Large volume discounts might cut the cost a bit but THAT much. This is the cost for fresh sides of fish, Whole fish are cheaper, though not after working out labor for butchering.....though you do get free bones for stock.

[Greg_Easter]

Regarding the person who wrote, "So really I gave up going to "restaurants" a long time ago... the problem is then to find some real food, as all the old places you could get the mash and meatballs seem to die off."

A restaurant is a business, which must make a profit after expenses of rent and employees. Giant dishes of meatballs that anyone could make at home offer little profit and little incentive for customers these days when ingredients are expensive. So the face of the restaurant industry has changed. You are either getting very low quality fast food, or you are paying for the talents of the chef to prepare something you couldn't make yourself. Whether or not you appreciate such fare is a matter of personal taste, of course. Most Russians don't, for example, because they were raised on a very basic diet with no imagination. All they want is their meat and potatoes, and anything "fancy" is something they "don't understand" - which is fine. There are places that cater to them. That's not the direction the industry is going in, though. Tastes are becoming more sophisticated, and the younger generation wants to try new cuisine. If you look at the age demographic of who is dining in what type of restaurant, you see that the higher caliber restaurants are mostly attracting successful and well educated people under 35.

[Mook]

If you look at the age demographic of who is dining in what type of restaurant, you see that the higher caliber restaurants are mostly attracting successful and well educated people under 35.

In FInland or somewhere else?

Here people study until they're 30, then become successful...

[Greg_Easter]

I am basing my statement on published information, and my own observations in Helsinki. Quite young people and old people tend to dine on traditional simple foods, but the middle ground is more adventurous and open minded.

[Pursuivant]

Well "ethnic" restaurants are where you go to feel adventurous, and admittedly, I used to frequent restaurants just for the "mash and meatballs" as in "can't be bothered to cook or go to visit mom but want to eat well". Making mash and meatballs sounds is "simple" - if you do it from a bag and a can. Of course I do agree theres a difference between greasy spoon lunch places and fine dining in the evenings.

[Greg_Easter]

You wrote, "Making mash and meatballs sounds is "simple" - if you do it from a bag and a can."

Making that kind of food is very simple for any professional cook. It is the sort of food that is made by entry level cooks for staff meals. All from scratch, of course (using scraps and trimmings from the guest's food).

[hullupoika]

Of course making meatballs and mash from scratch is simple, but if you think about it a little Paul Bocuse made his reputation on his perfect pomme pyree.

The biggest problem with Finnish restaurants in general is lack of standards and attention to detail. Even the simplest dishes can be brought to the level of haute cuisine with enough caring and attention to detail. Thomas Keller was somewhat creative, but what set his food apart was his quest for perfection in even the simplest of things. Generally speaking if your basic products are good, and handled with care, the food you end up making with them will be far superior to those of the sloppy, lazy, cowboy type chef with lots of "ideas".

While I am glad that you think that Finland is moving forward in in the culinary scene, I wonder how you came about your opinion. Finland is much like how you describe St. Petersburg, Old people wanting meat and mash on gilded plates in elegant surrondings. It makes me wonder about you background and pedigree if you truly believe that there is a vibrant culinary "scene" here. Of course there are exceptions. There is 2 star Chez Domonique which loses over 100k euroes a year to operate, offers 2 for one specials in winter and groupon coupons. Our "TOP CHEF" tv show is now featuring a contestant who is the owner-chef of a Michellin starred restaurant, career suicide for someone so "successful" in another country is somehow OK here.

There are some decent, not great but decent, mid level places to eat here, maybe Juuri, Kuurna, Kolo, Muru, Lupalo and and a couple of others. I won't mention Farang and Gajinn, because their food is just trying too hard to be David Chang or Zack Pelacchio with frozen ingredients and a lack of work. Next time you come to finland and eat in the hip or good places, listen to the conversation around you, if you hear over 25 percent english and 15 percent swedish, there might be a problem with the indigenous dining culture.

Also remember there is Finland for Foreign consumption, and there is Finland how it really is. Finland now has a professor of food sociology. Finland has events where we imports chef to lapland to cook with exotic ingredients like reindeer´s tounge. But in Finland people still, for the most part, eat their lunch in restaurants where people eat things from a package reheated by people who couldn´t give a !"#¤%. Most people in finland eat frozen concoctions at home that I wouldn´t feed to a dog. Most finnish people think food is fuel for drinking, full stop. Thats how it is, we can work to change that (I know I am), but I think you will find that is no easier than where you currently are.

Also, sorry to embarrass you, but "One of the best Restaurants in St. P"erg"...really? Jack Daniels sauce is more TGIF than Haute cuisine in my book. And again, "published author" is less impressive if you book was published by a family member, from a publishing company that is based in a three bedroom condo, with one employee ,that makes less than 50k USD revenue per year.

While most people might think this is naive culture, there are people who know how to google.

[jessesuomi]

As someone who has lived and worked in Finland since 2003 and has experience in 3 different michelin 3 star kitchens, worked with some one Sweden and Norways best Chefs, I agree wholeheartedly with crazy boy. You are not going to change either the employment laws nor the eating style of the public. It would take the whole industry to do so. If you are so ambitious about this, maybe hit up some place like Sweden or Norway where at least you will have a bit more sophisticated dining clientel that would appreciate the effort you put into making those meatballs better.

I just bought for the restaurant whitefish fillets, €32 a Kilo..... crazy. Also another thing to consider is how certain ingredients just arent the same. Try making the perfect bread from your perfect recipe that you have from back home.... the flour, yeast and all of that is just different. Not everything works the way we want it.

But hey, its your money to invest...... not to ruin your dream. Its just not so easy. Even the countries most famous and visibly Chef failed miserably opening a place.