Potkuri

[Rob A.]

I encountered this "new word" today in HS.....potkuri from the verb, potkia="to kick"

Which got me thinking....literally the word in Finnish means "kicker", which makes sense....and interestingly reminded me of some store signs I saw in a large "trading post" in far northern Canada while working on a summer job years ago. Outboard boat engines were advertised as "kickers"....Eg . " XXX hp. KIcker $ XXX". It seems to be an idiomatic expression that must be restricted to the north...I had never heard it before...nor since for that matter... But, of course, as a native English speaker intuitively knew what was meant.

Now the question....the ending, -uri, seems to have the sense of "doer". What are some other words that have this ending?

Searching around for words with the same suffix ending is much more difficult than searching by prefix. The suffix seems to be -uri. I have heard that there are dictionaries that work in reverse....which seems to be an easy thing to do these days...anything like that for Finnish?

[Aside: The English word, "propeller" comes ...quelle surprise ...from Latin and means "forward pusher".]

[AldenG]

The KOTUS sanalista has 445 words (many compound) ending in -uri, or which 183 are actually -uuri, leaving 262 that are mostly pure -uri. (There are a sprinkling of words like mauri among those.)

You're right that it's usually a doer but not necessarily a person

parturi = a barber, a person who cuts hair -- or, as with "barber," actually cuts "beards" (parta)
nauhuri = tape recorder, a thing that records to tape (nauha)
laituri = pier or wharf, who knows why?

Somewhere I think you've got that list from me in regular and mirror sort if you want to see all of the listed ones.

A more common "doer" ending is -ari, as in maalari (painter) or mittari (meter). On a quick check I find 585 of those, though that includes again many compounds (dozens with mittari alone) and a few like pari.

I don't recall if I ever got around to writing a program to eliminate the compounds. I don't have all the output files at this location.

[Rip]

I'm not sure about the origins, but personally I thought the ending here is just -ri, the pretty commonly used one in spoken language when you want to make the original word shorter (olkkari, telkkari, huppari, tunnari...)

(- or are those all supposed to be -ari endings...?)

[AldenG]

I'm not sure about the origins, but personally I thought the ending here is just -ri, the pretty commonly used one in spoken language when you want to make the original word shorter (olkkari, telkkari, huppari, tunnari...)

(- or are those all supposed to be -ari endings...?)

You're right, it is really -ri and any vowel can go before it though "a" and "u" are the two most common. One interesting aspect, though, is how the vowel sometimes changes, for instance from the "a" in nauha to the u in nauhuri. That sort of reinforces the superficial impression of a 3-letter ending.

When you look at the -ori and -eri words, many of which are not "doers," the vast majority of them are words of foreign origin (sometimes lightly fennicized) ending in -er or -or with a Finnish -i stuck on the end. That also makes the -uri/-yri stand out as special endings.

So there are all sorts of ways to perceive them, but in the sense of adding meaning, I think you're right that the -ri is the key and the vowel is mostly caulk for the joint.

[AldenG]

I checked the rest of my lists when I got home and I have them where the compounds are split with / (mostly, but not always correctly) and I'd have to run yet another few filters to remove the prefixes and the duplicates that would remain to isolate a list of unique basic words with those endings. Doesn't seem as pressing as some other things at the moment.

[Vellamo]

I'm not sure about the origins, but personally I thought the ending here is just -ri, the pretty commonly used one in spoken language when you want to make the original word shorter (olkkari, telkkari, huppari, tunnari...)

(- or are those all supposed to be -ari endings...?)

I don't know how olkkari, telkkari, huppari and tunnari are "doer" words, but how about tuomari or pyrkyri? I agree that it's probably -ri though I'm not too good at this stuff.

Also, I never viewed the word potkuri like that, interesting! How about potkija? A different kicker altogether...

[Jukka Aho]

Articles about the -(U)ri suffix in VISK: § 254, § 195

[Upphew]

You do kick with potkuri:

laituri = pier or wharf, who knows why?

Laita -> laituri
also: laitahyökkääjä -> laituri: http://www.sanakirja.org/search.php?id=35825&l2=3
keskushyökkääjä -> sentteri: http://www.sanakirja.org/search.php?q=s ... &l=17&l2=3

[Pursuivant]

So, if we would say its the same as verb+er in English, how would you differentiate between runkkaaja and runkkari in English

[Rip]

hobbyist and a professional?

[jahasjahas]

Runkkaaja is a temporary status, while runkkari is permanent. So "w4#73r" and "bloody w4#73r"?

Edit: oh yeah, word filter. That word isn't "waiter", try to figure it out.

[AldenG]

So, if we would say its the same as verb+er in English, how would you differentiate between runkkaaja and runkkari in English

By examining their Finland Forum posts, I presume.

[Rob A.]

Articles about the -(U)ri suffix in VISK: § 254, § 195

Thanks..I'll slowly work my way through this material...

[Edit:.....another complicated example....urut becomes urkuri...."organist"..... The musical instrument, urut, is always plural, but the player takes a singular base-word form.... The word, urku, seems to be only used as a name..Hotelli Urku in Kangasala....??? ...but then there is urkuharmoni.... Maybe there once was a word, urku*....? ]

[Työelämä]

Potkuri ( substantiivi )= Propeller.

[Jukka Aho]

[Edit:.....another complicated example....urut becomes urkuri...."organist"..... The musical instrument, urut, is always plural, but the player takes a singular base-word form.... The word, urku, seems to be only used as a name..Hotelli Urku in Kangasala....??? ...but then there is urkuharmoni.... Maybe there once was a word, urku*....? :wink: ]

I guess the word urku probably originally refers to the valve controlling the airflow to a single pipe, as in urkupilli. Since the musical instrument requires a multitude of them it would be natural to refer to the entire contraption — a collection of pipes/valves — in the plural. (Someone with a good Finnish dictionary might want to check it out as I’m not sure of the etymology of the word.)

There’s an expression ajaa urku auki, which refers to the operation of the carburetor (in so far as I have gathered) and would probably have to be translated as “to drive with the throttle valve (fully) open”, even though the word urku is not really used in car engine speak outside this idiom... or at least I don’t think it is.