A Canadian in need of helpful advise :)

sparks · Post by **sparks** » Mon May 28, 2012 6:59 am

Hello everyone,

I am a Canadian thinking about moving to Finland in the next year or two. My wife is originally from Finland, but has been residing in Canada for the past 10 years.
She is a dual citizen in Finland and Canada, and it seems that I will be able to get permanent resident status in Finland through her (we've been married for 4 years). We also have a one year old daughter who will become a Finnish citizen automatically.

I have visited Finland a couple of times and thoroughly love it! I speak very little Finnish, although I can understand quite a bit. We are hoping to embark on a new adventure and are seriously considering moving to Finland. The thing is, I want to make sure that we are well informed of the employment situation before making any major decisions.
My wife is interested in continuing her studies in Finland, she would also try to find some part-time work (she's fluent in Finnish and English). I have a HBA in Political Science, and a Master's degree in History. I also have about three years of experience working as a research analyst at a foreign embassy here in Canada, as well as experience working for a variety of NGO's in different capacities (fundraising coordinator, events planner etc).

I would much prefer to not have to rely on any type of social assistance while in Finland, and am wondering if finding employment is possible. I would be willing to work in almost any occupation to make sure my family has a place to live and food to eat.

So, here are my questions: Would you recommend coming to Finland? Is the job market as tough as some make it sound? I would be interested in teaching English (either private tutoring or in an English language school) and am thinking about attaining CELTA certification. Would this be a good idea, or is it very difficult to find a job teaching English? Also, is there any chance of getting a job before moving (if I can prove that I have permanent resident status) or do you have to be in Finland in order to find a job?

I would really appreciate any advise you may be able to give me.

Paljon kiitoksia

**Sponsor:**

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Mon May 28, 2012 8:55 am

sparks wrote:Would you recommend coming to Finland? Is the job market as tough as some make it sound? I would be interested in teaching English (either private tutoring or in an English language school) and am thinking about attaining CELTA certification. Would this be a good idea, or is it very difficult to find a job teaching English? Also, is there any chance of getting a job before moving (if I can prove that I have permanent resident status) or do you have to be in Finland in order to find a job?

Start the job hunt now. You don't know what the job situation will be in a year or two, but I'm sure it won't hurt to start the process now.

If you browse the forum more, you'll see that teaching English is no gold mine. Nor is any kind of social assistance.

Getting a job before moving is possible, but you can't work before you have the RP and that might take some time, depending where you move. Your application will be handled by police, if you apply in Finland.

Oombongo · Post by **Oombongo** » Mon May 28, 2012 9:55 am

I think salary levels are better in Canada than in Finland so are opportunities. But I am not sure as never been to other side of Atlantic
and your wife will go through a drastic change when she will land in Finland.

Bubba Elvis XIV · Post by **Bubba Elvis XIV** » Mon May 28, 2012 10:33 am

sparks wrote:CELTA certification. Would this be a good idea, or is it very difficult to find a job teaching English? Also, is there any chance of getting a job before moving (if I can prove that I have permanent resident status) or do you have to be in Finland in order to find a job?

Do a search...there's been a few posts about TEFL in Finland. In a nutshell, it's not well paid...this isn't Saudi or Japan...You mostly work freelance and get paid by the class, there's very few people getting a monthly salary. If there's a national holiday and all your classes have cancelled for a week, then you won't be getting paid. Demand for classes is low as most Finns speak English to a reasonable level, so there's not heaps of work around. A lot of people work in a few schools to fill up their schedule.

It's doable, but far from the best option.

Most schools only offer work to people already based in Finland. It can happen though, I know 3 (wow!!) people who got work from outside Finland.

Hmmm....Those tax free jobs in the UAE sound more appealing by the day.

inkku · Post by **inkku** » Mon May 28, 2012 12:06 pm

Fundraising could be promising, in that sense Finnish organisations lack a lot since they are used getting funds from public scehemes.

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Mon May 28, 2012 12:59 pm

inkku wrote:Fundraising could be promising, in that sense Finnish organisations lack a lot since they are used getting funds from public scehemes.

And because of that, the people aren't so willing to give money... they already pay the taxes.

Mita nyt · Post by **Mita nyt** » Mon May 28, 2012 7:16 pm

sending to inbox..

sparks · Post by **sparks** » Mon May 28, 2012 9:08 pm

Thanks so much for all of your comments! I'll have to look more into this teaching English thing. Obviously it would be better if I could find work in my own field, but I'm not sure how likely that will be. Did any of you find work before moving to Finland? If so, what type of work? Can you direct me to some websites that would give advice on how to put together a Finn-style CV and cover letter?

Thanks!

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Mon May 28, 2012 9:52 pm

As I think I don't have much to contribute to your actual question about employment, I just have some notes on other issues:

sparks wrote: and it seems that I will be able to get permanent resident status in Finland through her

Before permanent permit (or citizenship, which provided that you learn the language, you become eligible at the same time) you need to get first one, then four year permits. With your background permit approval is a practical certainty, although I dare not promise it will be fast.

We also have a one year old daughter who will become a Finnish citizen automatically.

She IS a Finnish citizen by birth, although to benefit from that Finnish authorities should be aware of her birth of course. If you have not registered her via the embassy, then do it now.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:10 pm

Also, as has been said before - apply for the Residence Permit in Canada. Yes, you can apply for it in Finland, but do you want to - the time dilation effect to closer you get to helsinki the longer the processing takes. And no, its not going to be easier, quite the opposite, you are going to be in limbo as a "tourist" not being able to do anything or get anything as you aren't existing before you get your RP, and that can take months. Meanwhile, you'll be twiddling your thumbs while you missus will have to do everything from signing papers to making any agreements. Instead, if you land with the RP, you'll "exist" in the system, you can get onto say the Government-funded integration course and you'll be sitting in thumbscrews whilst they pound grammar into your head.

As far as employment goes - who knows what it will be like in a few years. Finland being a small economy, you might find yourself a niche job, or then find someone is already in that niche. As far as teaching goes, if you got a minor in padagogics, you could teach History

Finland's got a very pissy formal qualification system so to be an "English Teacher" you have to have a master's degree in English philology, but you wouldn't be allowed to teach smaller kids without a masters in Pedagogy. But as said theres some private tutoring and language schools (adults can be corrupted without fancy degrees) but as said, its not Asia. Those philologists kickstart the kids, they can speak English, the wanting to speak part might be debatable...

Vastaus on Kanada!

teamg · Post by **teamg** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:41 pm

Hi,
I thought I would reply because I have been in a similar situation to yours though fortunately I am not now. I first came to Finland in 2006 having left my job and it was an experience largely filled with regrets. One has to be realistic and say that finding employment in Finland is generally quite complicated. Local authorities tell me that it is tough enough for native Finnish speakers so you can only imagine for those who are not. There is some hope, however, I think it all boils down to how desperate you are to stay here if you ever come over. As some other posters have mentioned, a large percentage of native English speakers end up in the English language training sector (employed by private companies). To put it into perspective I was offered employment by one of these during my first year in Helsinki, €9.25/hour and approximately 40 hours per month so if you do the maths, there is not a lot of money to be made as some others have mentioned. That said, however, I know a couple of people who have battled it out, done this for some years and ended up buliding up sufficient relationships to operate as private entrepreneurs or otherwise work sufficient monthly hours to earn a living. That is why I mentioned that it depends how desperate you are to stay here. Personally I wasn't at the time, I could have easily chosen this route but instead I followed by instincts, took a gamble by working over 5 years in a country which I did not really like. Fortunately, I caused a good enough impression with the company which employs me currently working remotely from Helsinki, I have been one of the lucky ones!

If you have some experience in event planning, you could do worse that making initial contact with a company called Events Management. I know a couple of people who got jobs there without knowing a word of Finnish so I think it is fairly niche that it could work if they think you have decent experience. They have offices in other parts of Europe and it would help if you were to speak one of the languages where they operate but otherwise, I think a good command of English and the right experience could stand you a decent chance.

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck and really hope it works out. It really is a terrific country to live in. If you need any more information or advice please do not hesitate....

kotimaa · Post by **kotimaa** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:23 pm

As you are married with Finnish,don't worry.
You can apply for permanent status and once you get Kela card,money start to come to your way.
Yes you don't have to look for job;you,wife and children start to get money from everywere.
Finnish people doesn't need to have any job.
Housing allowance,children allowance,unemployment or job seeker allowance b e e r allowance;and if the money you get is not enough
you will get house from the city where you live.
You can attend a finnish language course(e.g Edupoli school)and professional course(both payed from Finland)and get
some kind of plan studied only for you with psichiatric assistance.
I know this process wery well,'couse I'm married with a Finnish woman.
Anyways we are planning to move .......listen,listen to Canada becouse we don't want our children grow in this country.
Yes it's a safe place but the society is very strange.Finnish people don't have aptitude with friendship and maternity and children.
I can say that they are unsocial or at least with big social problem;unless you have some d r i n k i n g partner.

Työelämä · Post by **Työelämä** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:08 pm

kotimaa wrote:As you are married with Finnish,don't worry.
You can apply for permanent status and once you get Kela card,money start to come to your way.
Yes you don't have to look for job;you,wife and children start to get money from everywere.
Finnish people doesn't need to have any job.
Housing allowance,children allowance,unemployment or job seeker allowance b e e r allowance;and if the money you get is not enough
you will get house from the city where you live.
You can attend a finnish language course(e.g Edupoli school)and professional course(both payed from Finland)and get
some kind of plan studied only for you with psichiatric assistance.
I know this process wery well,'couse I'm married with a Finnish woman.
Anyways we are planning to move .......listen,listen to Canada becouse we don't want our children grow in this country.
Yes it's a safe place but the society is very strange.Finnish people don't have aptitude with friendship and maternity and children.
I can say that they are unsocial or at least with big social problem;unless you have some d r i n k i n g partner.

Should someone help interprete this i dont know if it is

Bubba Elvis XIV · Post by **Bubba Elvis XIV** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:42 pm

teamg wrote:To put it into perspective I was offered employment by one of these during my first year in Helsinki, €9.25/hour and approximately 40 hours per month so if you do the maths, there is not a lot of money to be made as some others have mentioned.

Name and shame!! Never heard of anyone getting paid that badly.

Shipwreck · Post by **Shipwreck** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:28 am

Would you recommend coming to Finland? - Coming? Of course! Staying? That is a much more complicated matter. Despite it's seemingly generous attitude towards societal development, this country is not for the faint of heart. Long winters, shy distant people: you might find yourself becoming very lonely very fast.

Is the job market as tough as some make it sound? YES! I imagine it is slightly easier to find some sort of employment in the capital region, but from personal experience I can assure you that it might take months or (as in my case) years of writing job applications and taking language courses before you are offered a job (and even then it probably won't be paying very much). Finns are skeptical of foreigners as employees, and the current job market situation doesn't help matters. Be prepared for a few tough years!

I would be interested in teaching English (either private tutoring or in an English language school) and am thinking about attaining CELTA certification. Would this be a good idea, or is it very difficult to find a job teaching English? It is difficult to find teaching jobs. Teaching profession is highly valued in Finland, which is why there are so many applicants to teacher schools and why Finnish school teachers are consistently ranked as some of the best in the world. I am by no means saying that you should not get your qualifications and apply for a teaching position, but if you are looking to become a language teacher chances are most Finnish graduates will know English grammar better than you do!

Also, is there any chance of getting a job before moving (if I can prove that I have permanent resident status) or do you have to be in Finland in order to find a job? Chances are slim. I have only met a handful of people who were ever offered jobs prior to their arrival in Finland, and even then they were for specific projects which lasted only a few years. After that most of them returned back to their home countries. My advice would be to start looking asap and don't stop until you found one. If you do find a job, hold onto it for dear life! Also, entertain the possibility of going back to school or seeking some further vocational training. Finns are big advocates of life-long learning, and it is not uncommon to see people in their late 20s, 30s or even older deciding to go back to school in order to bolster their qualifications and CV. You said you have a masters in history? I can assure you that that in itself will get you practically nowhere in Finland, ESPECIALLY since you are a foreigner. You'll be able to have interesting thought-provoking conversations in the bar with other Finns, but that is about as far as that kind of education will take you in this country. I think you had the right idea about attaining the CELTA certification. Finns love certificates and official qualifications. Try to diversify your interests: take first-aid courses, language tests, hygiene card test...even the alcoholic drink service exam (anniskelulupa) if you feel up to it! The more the better. The more diversified your qualification, the more chances and opportunities you will have to find SOME sort of employment.

Sorry if my answers were a bit on the negative side, but I just know from personal experience how difficult and frustrating it can be to make it in this country. Your marital relationship aside I think you need to ask yourself whether or not you are really willing to put in the time and effort it takes to set yourself up in a new country. There is a reason why so many immigrants (Canada is a GREAT example) are on social benefits for the first few years after they arrive: moving to a new part of the world is not easy! You need patience, determination, and, in the case of Finland, a sh*t load of sisu (ask your wife). I am by no means saying that you should NOT come here, but you should seriously consider the ramifications of your decision before you pick up and leave Canada. It might be one of the best decisions you will ever make, or it might turn out to be a complete disaster. I know the latter is more common.

Take it from a fellow Canadian, weigh your options carefully.

Finland Forum

Find information about moving to, living in and life in Finland