Another Stupid Law

[Rip]

Now, before he graduates, if he loses his job and goes to Employment Office to register as unemployed job seeker then they kick in his mouth by saying you cannot register as job seeker as you are still registered as student.

Goes for everybody. You can't collect unemployment benefits as a student (there is some limited exception to those unemployed wanting to study nowadays).
There is a procedure I recall for giving up the student status, but for foreigner currently unemployed and on non-permanent permit, unlikely to be wise move. (If even for Finns, most of the times it is good to have the degree and not just know the stuff)

WTF, and no student financial aid in summer.

I assume the rules are basically same as they were in mine time. If you can pass enough courses in summer time or in September exam period, you can apply for student aid for summer months.

[Pursuivant]

He have finished his courses two years ago pending thesis.

And the reason for not graduating is... where? In the law?

so, I feel stupid law.

So I feel, lazy student, write thesis chop chop, real incentive get to eat when graduate

[Pursuivant]

And the reason for not graduating is...

might be lack of time due to full time job.

Catch-22 of the university students. In the polytechnics they give you the calculated time +1 and you're out. Seems they're losing patience in the uni's as well though.

Next question might be, now he has time to do so..... but he doesn't have enough money to cover his bills.

Should be an incentive to write it quick.

but till he finds new job, he doesn't get unemployment benefit for which he have been paying the fees.

Because he's a student. Unemployment money is for them unemployeds, not for people without work. Two different things, totally.

And joining the union while you're a student is exactly what to do as you need to be working for 10 months before you're eligible for being unemployed. Otherwise, if you graduate straight into the queue (as I did back in 1994), you're entitled to jack.

[DMC]

Because he's a student. Unemployment money is for them unemployeds, not for people without work. Two different things, totally.

By that logic, when he was working he wasn't employed, he was a person with work. Two different things?

If he is not entitled to any unemployment benefit, what is the justification for taking unemployment fund contributions from him for a couple of years? Is that fair? What was he getting for his money?

[Pursuivant]

You are missing the point, he was not a student, who studied, but employed person who worked. What is the justification of being a student with student benefits like cheap housing and subsideised tickets if you are not really a student? Add to that, what would have happened to him if he hadn't been able to contribute to the union fund and after graduation been unemployed? It was his own choice to eat the cake while having it. Being a student and being unemployed are mutually exclusive phases of existence. If he is lost the water, he can not be steam and ice simultaneously even he chose to have a few cubes and fog when he had water.

At the end of the day, theres nobody else to blame but he who "thought" to try to beat the system that is unbeatable. It is, we "know" therefore no sympathy, only tea.

[DMC]

Actually I think it is you who is missing the point. If he is not entitled to unemployment benefits they should not have charged him unemployment fund contributions. To my mind doing so was fraud, morally if not legally.

Also I fail to see how you can accuse him of trying to beat the system. Working for a living, paying taxes ... isn't that called contributing to the system rather than trying to beat it? I think your logic is upside down. Any law which discourages someone from working and paying their dues can surely be regarded as stupid.

[onkko]

Actually I think it is you who is missing the point. If he is not entitled to unemployment benefits they should not have charged him unemployment fund contributions. To my mind doing so was fraud, morally if not legally.

Also I fail to see how you can accuse him of trying to beat the system. Working for a living, paying taxes ... isn't that called contributing to the system rather than trying to beat it? I think your logic is upside down. Any law which discourages someone from working and paying their dues can surely be regarded as stupid.

He is entitled if he is unemployed, he isnt.

[Pursuivant]

It is you who is still missing the point. Its his own choice to still be a student. If you work and pay taxes and contribute to the union, you still need 10 months under your belt to be able to get anything except basic KELA out the system. So in your opinion, students who do their thesis along with work, and then lose their job, wouldn't be able to claim any unemployment benefits?

Theres nothing fraudulent in the system. If a student has other priorities than to do his thesis and graduate, thats his own personal choice. It is also his own personal choice not to drop out of school. You can only be either a lazy and unachieving student or a lazy unachieving unemployed, the system enables you to make the transit fluently, as who has heard graduates getting a job? The times you became a lazy and unachieving civil servant automatically after graduating from the social sciences faculty are long gone. Nowadays you have to aspire for the railwaystation toilet attendant position.

Any law which discourages someone from working and paying their dues can surely be regarded as stupid.

The law encourages students to graduate in time.

[DMC]

So in your opinion, students who do their thesis along with work, and then lose their job, wouldn't be able to claim any unemployment benefits?

No. I thought that is what you were saying.

I do see what you and Onkko mean about it not being possible to be both a student and unemployed at the same time. That is the crux of the matter, and it is that definition which I believe is stupid. The person was both a student and employed at the same time. If that is possible why can't he be a student and unemployed at the same time?

This person is being refused unemployment benefit purely because they have been slow in completing their thesis. I consider that access to unemployment benefits should be based on contributions to the unemployment fund and availability for work and not on performance as a student. Now if someone claimed unemployment benefits whilst refusing to work because they were too busy being a student, that would be a different case.

[Mook]

Isn't it just the "can't receive two types of benefit" rule? If there's the possibility that you might get two it's decided by heirarchy e.g. Maternity Benefits beat kodinhoitotuki beat student beat unemployment - regardless of what you'd be paid for them.

As a student you're still receiving your free education...

Anyhow, this is very well known - even I know it, based on conversations at work

[007]

Isn't is so that the kassa money can be claimed once he graudates and is registered as unemployed?`If an unemployed can become a student, then he will be enjoying both unemployed money as well as student money. Imagine a flood of unemployed getting a study place just to get their hands on student money.

[Upphew]

Imagine a flood of unemployed getting a study place just to get their hands on student money.

Except now it is either/or and the student money is waaaaaaaay below the earnings related unemployment money. It is quite new thing that you can study while being unemployed. And by study I mean something useful, not the usual työkkäri slave work crap.

[007]

Imagine a flood of unemployed getting a study place just to get their hands on student money.

Except now it is either/or and the student money is waaaaaaaay below the earnings related unemployment money. It is quite new thing that you can study while being unemployed. And by study I mean something useful, not the usual työkkäri slave work crap.

But being unemployed, you cannot enrol into a course offered by amk/yliopisto that leads to a degree, can you? I think that's possible for some sort of vocational courses that last for 6 months or 1 year. That's what I have heard. BTW, at the moment I am @ työkkäri slave work + study crap

[Pursuivant]

I'd been screaming of joy if I could have claimed unemployment money and been studying at the same time. Back in the 90's also there was no work as everything was bankrupt.

As for things being "fair" Same thing now that I moved to UK, if I got made redundant, they'd tell me here to pissoff and if I took the milk plane to Finland, I'd be on base KELA even I have paid 11 years to union funds. The day I buggered off I left that option. So this whining makes me just giggle myself silly.

[Rip]

But being unemployed, you cannot enrol into a course offered by amk/yliopisto that leads to a degree, can you?

That used to be clearly so, now I think the situation is more complex. Those who have are reason to know better should open discussion what the "self-motivated study" on this page is or can be:
http://www.kela.fi/in/internet/english. ... enDocument