Advise on moving to Finland as a British citizen.

[daveba]

Hello! I have just registered and this is my first post.

I suddenly find myself in a position that I may have an opportunity to move here, at least for 2-3 years. I am being offered a research position at a Uni and also possibly a phd studentship for my wife. I have a few questions about tax and living costs in comparison to UK.

If I earn around € 60k and my wife gets offered around €25-30k is that sufficient for a family of 2+2? I looked at the living costs and although they are pretty high, I thought we would just make it. At that salary what tax would I pay? I checked an online calculator and it shows around €40k take home (just for me), is that right?

Also, my boss who is Finnish told me that kids go to year 1 at 7 years? My old one is 5 and will go to year 1 from September in UK, how will that work when she moves here?

Many hurdles to cross yet but thought would plan in advance and know some answers. Apologies in advance if I am repeating some questions.

Thanks.

[Rip]

is that sufficient for a family of 2+2?

I think it still compares quite favourable to the median family income here.

I checked an online calculator and it shows around €40k take home (just for me), is that right?

Seems correct. You can calculate the same way the rate for your wife (yes, taxation here is done individually, not as families as the basic unit.) As a first approximation, if your wife goes to work, the child benefits you get cover (almost) the child care fee you have to pay for the youngest child.

[Pursuivant]

Well, the calculator was pretty much on the money. (pun intended). I got your take home around 42000, the bigger earner takes the child deduction usually. Your % would be 29, and say for 25K the percentage would be around 15. Not bad at all, you just need to then live up to your means to keep the expenses down

Yeah, proper school starts at 7, before that is 'pre- school', theres international schools as well, though they might cost.
http://www.minedu.fi/OPM/Koulutus/yleis ... s/?lang=en

As you can see theres a reason for age 7 Pre-primary pupils who live over five kilometres from school or whose school travel is too difficult, tiring or dangerous for their age are entitled to free school transportation. - kids need to be able to outrun the wolves

[Rip]

the bigger earner takes the child deduction usually

What 'child deduction'..?
(you haven't been out of Finland for THAT long, have you?)

[Pursuivant]

Hrm... why the heck do they then ask it in the calculator... well, if you speed and get a ticket you get a deduction.

[daveba]

Thank you very much for your quick replies! That is reassuring. I will check about the child care costs in the other section for the young one.

[Rosamunda]

Schooling your 5 year old here might be a problem and if you don't manage it properly he/she might find school difficult when you return to the UK. It would be worth discussing your situation with the English-language kindergartens and, if you are in Helsinki, consider options such as the International School (very expensive) or the European School (not so expensive) which are more likely to take a 5 or 6 year old into a primary years programme. You could also try Ressu (IB World School with full PYP programme) but I would be really surprised if they agreed to take a 5-year old.

[sinikala]

Hello! I have just registered and this is my first post.

I suddenly find myself in a position that I may have an opportunity to move here, at least for 2-3 years. I am being offered a research position at a Uni and also possibly a phd studentship for my wife. I have a few questions about tax and living costs in comparison to UK.

If I earn around € 60k and my wife gets offered around €25-30k is that sufficient for a family of 2+2? I looked at the living costs and although they are pretty high, I thought we would just make it. At that salary what tax would I pay? I checked an online calculator and it shows around €40k take home (just for me), is that right?

Also, my boss who is Finnish told me that kids go to year 1 at 7 years? My old one is 5 and will go to year 1 from September in UK, how will that work when she moves here?

Many hurdles to cross yet but thought would plan in advance and know some answers. Apologies in advance if I am repeating some questions.

Thanks.

Depends on lifestyle, €60k takehome of 4 is liveable, but not great for an ex-pat family . Probably not going to be able to put much aside though (e.g. if you are looking to save for a mortgage).

Over the last five years the cost of food and clothes here has been high compared to the UK due to the strength of the Euro.
As the Euro has slipped from around €1.13 vs Sterlng to €1.27 then prices aren't going to seem so bad.

You didn't say where in Finland.
- Housing will likely be cheaper outside of the HEV capital area.
- In the capital area you'll be able to make do with 1 or 0 cars.
- Back to the ex-pat bit... assuming you want to visit the UK occasionally (1x / 2x per year?) international travel cost (flights) will depend on which Finnish city you live in and to some extent your UK destination.
- E.g. very cheap to get from Tampere to Stansted/Cambridge by Ryanair, less cheap to get from Oulu to Bristol or Lapeenranta to Cardiff. For four of you the difference in cost might be several €k p.a.

Your child's education may be put on ice for 2 years, (they tag those extra years on at the end, finishing high school at 19 and the first year of uni at 20 gets them to about A-level standard).

If you get as far as negotiating a deal, make sure you get a full holiday entitlement.

[daveba]

Many thanks for the information, it is really helpful. I will only accept the offer if my wife gets the job as well. It could get difficult on just my salary and saving will truly go out of the window.

I will be in Espoo/Aalto, so a decent apartment seems to be around €1100-1200? Flights will be to manchester, so only the expensive options, but my travel will always be paid. Holidays wont be a problem at all. The schooling seems to be one of the biggest concerns. I wouldn't want my daughter to miss school for two years. So will look into that. Also, my boss said child care is state subsidised (comes out as tax) and should cost around £200pm, I need to check that out.

[sinikala]

Many thanks for the information, it is really helpful. I will only accept the offer if my wife gets the job as well. It could get difficult on just my salary and saving will truly go out of the window.

I will be in Espoo/Aalto, so a decent apartment seems to be around €1100-1200? Flights will be to manchester, so only the expensive options, but my travel will always be paid. Holidays wont be a problem at all. The schooling seems to be one of the biggest concerns. I wouldn't want my daughter to miss school for two years. So will look into that. Also, my boss said child care is state subsidised (comes out as tax) and should cost around £200pm, I need to check that out.

I was at Aalto as an FP4 EU project postdoc 2000-2001. A decent experience, though I found the lack of interdepartmental cooperation rather odd. International collaboration was rewarded, but there was no incentive to cooperate with your neighbours.

Back in the day I was on a little over 17000 FIM per month, so about €37k p.a.
Having come off a UK Ph.D. student's grant I felt like a millionaire, though I didn't have a family to support.

You'll be OK for flights then. Not bad that someone will pay your travel home, I never got that!
Finnair fly HEL-MAN twice daily, it's the one I use to visit my folks who are all in the N.W.
Usually costs €270-€300, but can be had for less if you book when there's a promotion (we paid €148 p.p. last time).

Apartment costs - depend on furnished or unfurnished.
If you're both working in Otaniemi, then Tapiola is where you should be looking to rent.
€1200 a month should get you a 2 bedroom flat (here referred to as a 3 room apartment) with about 60 m^2 http://www.vuokraovi.com/ go further out and you'll get more square footage, but you'll have a longer commute and less facilities.

Feel free to switch to PM if you want any more info!

[Rip]

Slightly "misread" the family info at first. Anyway, with two children you'd get about 220€/month tax free "child benefit" (irrespective of how much you earn and how many of you are working). If your wife would take care of the children at home she would get a taxable "child home care allowance". The amount varies depending on where you live. In Helsinki for your family I think that would be about 400-500€/month after tax (while the youngest child is under three years old). If you put the kids to public daycare the fee would be (in Helsinki) about 260/€ for one child and 320€ for two (of course no "child home care allowance" if your wife does not take care of a child at home). The combined effect of course reduces somewhat the difference it makes if your wife has a job or not.

Arranging school for the older one must be bit tricky (so that return to UK would be smooth). I would think somebody on the board would have the experience.

As stated by others, where you live has among other things effect on how much you'd need to use a car of your own here (but I'd say most families with two children do have at least one). If you possibly plan to bring one with you, see: http://www.tulli.fi/en/finnish_customs/ ... 008_en.pdf (especially section 5.3)

[daveba]

Sinikala and Rip, this is just invaluable information. Really helps a lot. Let's see how things go from now, decisions decisions!

Sinikala, this is just such a coincidence! I will switch to PM mode. They're actually trying to improve cross-organisational collaboration. But that is true for many Universities, especially in the one I work currently! We are involved in many international networks and know hundreds of researchers there, but within the University depts, absolutely minimal!

[Rosamunda]

Aalto didn't even exist as such in 2000-1. It has changed a lot and I hear more and more positive feedback on the place all the time (I teach in a UAS in Helsinki and I work with people who currently work in Aalto).

If you are working in Otaniemi then you don't have to stick with Tapiola. Tapiola housing is relatively expensive (unless you can get accomodation in Otaniemi itself) and the whole area is currently being dug up due to the metro expansion and suburban redevelopment. It's chaos at the moment and will be for the next 2-3 years. I wouldn't want to live there now (but it will be nice when it's all done).

There are good public transport routes into Tapiola from places like Matinkyla which, although high rise by Finnish standards, is right on the sea and packed with amenties for young families. It's only 20 mins into the city centre by bus, so a good point for travelling around the metropolitan area. And anywhere in between Tapiola and Matinkyla is good too (Olari, Niittykumpu etc ie the Länsiväylä corridor). There are also plenty of English language daycare places in Olari/Matinkyla as there are several English-language primary schools in the area. You can find more info on www.espoo.fi

[kiwijim]

Good luck, I have moved here with my British passport but lucky I do not have a family, not yet

I suggest you look at these websites, tax - http://www.vero.fi / social security - http://www.kela.fi / MOL (government employment agency) - http://www.mol.fi

Start learning Finnish as soon as possible, it's not the easiest language to learn.

Take cod liver oil and vitamin D pills over winter.

I started school in France and moved to a English speaking after a while, your kid will be fine, they are little sponges and will cope better than you could imagine.

[Rosamunda]

Some useful info in here, in case you haven't found it already (most of it applies to all researchers and visitors, not just farmers!)

http://www.helsinki.fi/agriculturalscie ... rchers.pdf